[KenShelton]

Danny,

Can you offer some guidance on speaker cables?

People I trust have differing thoughts.  Dave Ellis writes that he likes Vampire Continuous Cast Copper (single conductor?) cable in 18 gauge for classical music (better definition) and 14 ga. for other music (better mid-range & bass).  (Isn't just about all copper wire both oxygen free and continuously cast these days???)

Pierre Spey of Mapleshade Records* produces CDs with superb sound quality and recommends single conductor wire of 18 gauge, and if unavailable, use 20 ga. 

Peter Aczel, The Audio Critic, has a 1991 article about speaker cables (page PDF-39), where he talks about the three elements of any AC circuit, resistance, capacitance, and inductance (the sum of which we call impedance).  Capacitance in speaker cables is negligible except in some weird configurations, inductance should be low (and usually is low), and resistance should be low.

Blue Jeans Cable offers Belden stranded 12 gauge and 10 gauge copper cable and states that the most important thing in speaker cables is low resistance, thus these heavy gauge cables.

Danny Richie likes JPS Labs Alumiloy solid alloy wire for internal speaker wiring.

I've listened to BJC #10 Belden cable, twisted PTFE silver plated stranded #12 and PTFE silver plated solid #20.  I like them all.

Should I write some big checks for JPS Labs speaker cable or other high priced wire???




*If you like jazz/blues/world or any of the other music types Mapleshade records, do yourself a favor and listen to their CDs.  The sound quality is better than great.

[arthurs]

JPS cables are nice for sure, I'm going to have some in for a demo in a few weeks. 

You might look into Gregg Straley's Reality Cables, used by many here (Danny included) and one of the best "bang for your buck" values in audio....Gregg is a cool guy to deal with as well, and offers a demo period if I'm not mistaken...

[pbrstreetgang]

DNM wire is getting a lot of buzz im thinking of trying it. The upper level Epos are now wired with it. http://singledriver.blogspot.com/2007/08/new-dnm-speaker-wire.html

[Cacophonix]

I like them all.

If you like them all, then just buy the cheapest one of all.
Leave the $$$ ones for people who can hear enough of a difference to fork out $$$.

After going back and forth between several cables, i ended up with BJC and am perfectly fine with it.

Spend the money you save to upgrade your electronics or speakers. It'll make a lot more of a difference.

[Danny Richie]

I have made most of my favorite cables. I have used both Vampire continuous caste Copper and JPS Labs to make some really good speaker cables.

The Vampire CCC isn't available anymore, and the JPS Labs cable that I stock can only be sold with kits as an internal wire upgrade. So both of those options are out if DIY is on your mind.

I also have to agree with Art. The best bang for the buck speaker cables I have had in here have to be the Reality Cables.

I'll also tell you that it is not just about inductance capacitance, and resistance. The dielectric material and geometry of the wire can have as much to do with how the wire sounds as anything.

Also, larger gauge and lower resistance doesn't mean it will sound better either.

[WallyWest]

Should I write some big checks for JPS Labs speaker cable or other high priced wire???

Only you can decide that.  If you want to be at least somewhat scientific compare them to, oh, how about 12 gauge cable from Home Depot.  Have a friend switch them around without telling you which is which. 

My position on this is simple.  If there is any difference it is very subtle.  All the scientific tests done in this field point to no difference whatsoever.  Given the HUGE difference in price between basic cables and stuff like JPS I would expect an equally huge improvement in the sound.  Compare them yourself and see if you can justify the cost.  I never could. 

[dweekie]

The Vampire CCC isn't available anymore...

What happened with that???

[Danny Richie]

Vampire sold out of their CCC wire, and due to the high cost of Copper they have no plans to have any more made.

[saisunil]

Empirical Design makes excellent cable
http://www.empiricaldesign.net/speaker_cables.html

Just today I ordered a 23 feet speaker cable to replace a 8 foot long pair.
I will be putting it on sale - if that interests you.

It has been, I believe, absolute sound recommended product for two running years.

It is based on good science and construction without use of any exotic products, at a reasonable price.
In my experience, it delivers the goods and does not come in the way.

Cheers

[Syrah]

I love my Belden Cross Connected Coax based on Jon Risch's recipe that were done up by Gene at Take Five Audio.  Great value.  If DIY'ing, you could check out Jon Risch's recipe, just Google his name to get his website.

[cujobob]

Don't spend too much...there are probably differences to be found, but is your room treated well enough (or system of high enough caliber) that the money isn't better spent elsewhere?

Figure out the cost of your setup and spend maybe 10% of that total on wiring (including ICs, speaker cabling, etc.)..any more and you're better off spending that cash elsewhere for better results IMHO.

BTW, the most I'd recommend spending is on the Reality Cables which seem to be praised by just about anyone who has owned them (and you don't see them available used too often)...I buy cables used quite often to save 50% off MSRP

[Tyson]

Components make a larger difference than wire.  But, once you have the basic sound of your system where you want it, cables are an effective way to get that final tuning to really locked in.  My advice is to listen to as many different cables as possible in your system and decide based on first hand experience.  I like Bolder Cables, but I prefer a fast/revealing/bass-strong type of sound, and they have it in spades.  If you are looking to soften up a hard or bright sounding system, there are other options out there that will do that as well. 

[AmpDesigner333]

Should I write some big checks for JPS Labs speaker cable or other high priced wire???

Only you can decide that.  If you want to be at least somewhat scientific compare them to, oh, how about 12 gauge cable from Home Depot.  Have a friend switch them around without telling you which is which. 

My position on this is simple.  If there is any difference it is very subtle.  All the scientific tests done in this field point to no difference whatsoever.  Given the HUGE difference in price between basic cables and stuff like JPS I would expect an equally huge improvement in the sound.  Compare them yourself and see if you can justify the cost.  I never could. 

It comes down to resistance and inductance.  If you can solder, buy 12 gauge or 14 gauge (if the run length is less than 15 feet) wire and get terminations from Digi-Key.  By terminations, I mean banana plugs or spade lugs.  I definitely recommend soldered connections instead of crimped for long life.  I agree that this is a typical area for spending too much when it really doesn't make a difference to the sound or your system.  This comes from an engineer with 20 years experience, not a marketing firm.

[Danny Richie]

It comes down to resistance and inductance.  If you can solder, buy 12 gauge or 14 gauge (if the run length is less than 15 feet) wire and get terminations from Digi-Key.  By terminations, I mean banana plugs or spade lugs.  I definitely recommend soldered connections instead of crimped for long life.  I agree that this is a typical area for spending too much when it really doesn't make a difference to the sound or your system.  This comes from an engineer with 20 years experience, not a marketing firm.

Wow! And I take it from this pic of one of your amps that you don't believe that high quality binding posts will make any difference either? And it's $6,000 huh.

[AmpDesigner333]

It comes down to resistance and inductance.  If you can solder, buy 12 gauge or 14 gauge (if the run length is less than 15 feet) wire and get terminations from Digi-Key.  By terminations, I mean banana plugs or spade lugs.  I definitely recommend soldered connections instead of crimped for long life.  I agree that this is a typical area for spending too much when it really doesn't make a difference to the sound or your system.  This comes from an engineer with 20 years experience, not a marketing firm.

Wow! And I take it from this pic of one of your amps that you don't believe that high quality binding posts will make any difference either? And it's $6,000 huh.
<<<picture removed>>>

Those same binding posts can be found on Krell amps as well.

The Cherry amplifier (and smaller DAC4800A) is a fine product and uses patented modulation and control techniques developed through more than 10 years of research.  The hardware in that box is very expensive to build and the end result is beautiful sound.  Some of my customers have told me this is the best amplifier they have ever heard, regardless of the cost.  Are you an electrical engineer?  Do you design audio equipment?  Do you own a company?

I stand by what I said about speaker wire.  It's wire, that's all.  Critics are a dime a dozen.

[TRADERXFAN]

Do you own a company?

This is his circle you are posting in... GR research is his company - and mighty successful one at that.

[AmpDesigner333]

Do you own a company?

This is his circle you are posting in... GR research is his company - and mighty successful one at that.

I was on their web site when you posted!  Very interesting stuff, and I am actually a potential customer (speakers).  There's even a digital amp comparison from back in 2006.  I was checking to see if they sell speaker cable!  Not that I can tell.  Thanks for the note.

[mcullinan]

Thats a major FIM. We all love acronyms, this one stands for Foot in Mouth.

Mike

[Danny Richie]

Most of the regulars here have already been through the experiences of realizing the differences that can be had from different types of wire, cables, capacitors, etc. So you aren't going to convince anyone otherwise around here.

I stand by what I said about speaker wire.  It's wire, that's all.  Critics are a dime a dozen.

Everyone here is welcome to post their own subjective assessments. So if your stance is that YOU don't hear a difference then that is fine. If you try to convince others that there is some fact that is a result of your own conclusions isn't going to fly.

Just a helpful hint and respectful advice for selling your amps (which could very well be great, I don't know), I wouldn't publicize too much that you don't hear any differences in cables.

I hope you enjoyed the digital amp shoot out that I hosted in 2006. I participated an another one the next year hosted at a friends house. It was covered in StereoMojo. We did integrated amps one weekend and power amps the next.

http://www.stereomojo.com/SHOOTOUT2007INTEGRATEDS.htm

http://www.stereomojo.com/AmpSHOOTOUTPowerAmps.htm

You might find those interesting as well.

[WallyWest]

Anybody who believes they can hear a difference between cables should take their case to the Amazing Randi and collect a million dollars.

Here you go

It's a legit offer, he has the money waiting in an account for someone to claim it. 

I'm somewhat neutral on this topic, it wouldn't piss me off if someone proved me wrong.  I've read about, and participated in, DBT's designed to test cables.  In my experience there is no difference and I've never heard of a DBT that showed otherwise.  Add to that the ridiculous claims some cable manufacturers make, things that if true would literally rewrite the laws of physics, and the whole thing just smells like snake oil to me. 

But by all means, prove me wrong.  Go collect your million dollars.