[Wayner]

Perhaps like many of you, I have done some electrical work to the house, adding a few outlets here and there and a couple of lights in the garage. So with today as another day off from work I decided to get 'r done. Fred is a great guy, I've known him for years. I know some of you think of these guys as the evil government extension, but they are really there to relieve you of the responsibility. Fred gave me the nod except for an outdoor outlet that he made me get an "in-use" cover for. No big deal. So for $35 dollars, my whole house is up to snuff and is a good feeling. I have to recommend that everyone that has done some work, have it inspected. You'll feel better, too.

Wayner 

[ST-2A3]

Perhaps like many of you, I have done some electrical work to the house, adding a few outlets here and there and a couple of lights in the garage. So with today as another day off from work I decided to get 'r done. Fred is a great guy, I've known him for years. I know some of you think of these guys as the evil government extension, but they are really there to relieve you of the responsibility. Fred gave me the nod except for an outdoor outlet that he made me get an "in-use" cover for. No big deal. So for $35 dollars, my whole house is up to snuff and is a good feeling. I have to recommend that everyone that has done some work, have it inspected. You'll feel better, too.

Wayner 

Evil? No, but for those that know how to add an outlet or additional lighting, they are useless. I am not sure what responsibility they would be relieving me of either. Even as a former HVAC tech, we would install a new breaker and run wire to a new unit in the house, all without the oversight of city/county inspectors. As it is, I feel good about my own work.

[Wayner]

You think? Perhaps not when your house is smoldering in ruins 'cause you made a simple mistake. It's actually required by law, even electricians have to have their wiring inspected. I'm an electrical designer and love having state electrical inspectors over. That little sticker in the box is worth the small fee. Remember, there are no statute of limitations on electrical wiring. If your non-inspected wiring gets someone, you are liable. Hows that?

Wayner

[ST-2A3]

You think? Perhaps not when your house is smoldering in ruins 'cause you made a simple mistake. It's actually required by law, even electricians have to have their wiring inspected. I'm an electrical designer and love having state electrical inspectors over. That little sticker in the box is worth the small fee. Remember, there are no statute of limitations on electrical wiring. If your non-inspected wiring gets someone, you are liable. Hows that?

Wayner

When it comes to electricity, I don't make mistakes.

I do not know what state you live in, but inspections in my state are done at the city or county level, if they are done at all. I have also hired licensed electricians to do more involved work in my house and no one inspected their work. You may live in a more draconian state than I do and have to worry about "little stickers". That is not the case here or, another state where I have a home.

[thunderbrick]

I worked in a lumberyard for a number of years, and you have no idea how many guys screwed up the wiring in their homes, and  they always thought they did it right, including some home builders.   I know builders who consider the inspectors their enemy, but having seen what some contractors have done....................you get the idea.  Do it right, and get the inspectors in.   I learned early on NEVER to let my father-in-law (a skilled, great guy!) ever touch anything electrical.
Having said this, I bought a house with screwed-up wiring and rewired the whole damned thing, and like all AC members I obviously did it right.
And NEVER EVER EVER let an electrical engineer touch your house wiring!!!!  

[rustneversleeps]

Sometimes licensed electricians and city inspectors don't mean shit.

I was looking at houses a few years ago, and had a six year old house picked out. I hired this inspector to do the inspection. He found all the ground fault outlets in the kitchen all wired wrong. So when they were building this house, how did this licensed electrician screw up, and how did his &*^% up work get passed the city inspector?

Now the kicker is, this inspector then found a shattered corner on the foundation and some cracks on the wall that went from the basement all the way to the second floor, and he told me it wasn't a big deal. since the cracks were not quite 1/4" wide. he might be right about the cracks were not quite 1/4" wide, but &^%$ him.

You get your house inspected for insurance reason. If your house got burned down and the fire marshall found that you used the wrong gauge of wire for too big of a load, you wouldn't be covered by your insurance.

The state and federal facilities can do their own wiring and be exempt from inspection, but they all have to meet the NEC.

[ctviggen]

Sometimes licensed electricians and city inspectors don't mean shit.

I was looking at houses a few years ago, and had a six year old house picked out. I hired this inspector to do the inspection. He found all the ground fault outlets in the kitchen all wired wrong. So when they were building this house, how did this licensed electrician screw up, and how did his &*^% up work get passed the city inspector?

Now the kicker is, this inspector then found a shattered corner on the foundation and some cracks on the wall that went from the basement all the way to the second floor, and he told me it wasn't a big deal. since the cracks were not quite 1/4" wide. he might be right about the cracks were not quite 1/4" wide, but &^%$ him.

You get your house inspected for insurance reason. If your house got burned down and the fire marshall found that you used the wrong gauge of wire for too big of a load, you wouldn't be covered by your insurance.

The state and federal facilities can do their own wiring and be exempted from inspection, but they all have to meet the NEC.

How does one screw up the wiring for GFCI outlets?  There's not a lot to them.  As for house inspectors, the house inspector I had didn't find any of the problems my house has.  I think house inspections are a scam -- the house inspectors are in bed with the real estate agents (as are the assessors, who assessed the value of my house for the exact amount of my loan; coincidence?  I don't think so).  If you can find a house inspector who knows something and is willing to tell the truth, then that's great.

[Wayner]

I'm not talking about some dope local inspectors here guys. The state electrical inspector is the electrical authority and knows more about the National Eletrical Code (NEC) than anyone. These guys didn't just get off the boat! The National Electric Code is LAW. It also applies universally to everyone living in the U.S. and it's territories.

Wayner

[ST-2A3]

I'm not talking about some dope local inspectors here guys. The state electrical inspector is the electrical authority and knows more about the National Eletrical Code (NEC) than anyone. These guys didn't just get off the boat! The National Electric Code is LAW. It also applies universally to everyone living in the U.S. and it's territories.

Wayner

Yes I know the NEC applies to everyone. The problem in my area is, inspections are done at the city/county level. There are no state inspectors that examine work done on a residential structure. In my county, if the work to be done is less than $500, no permit is needed, and therefore no inspection will be done.

FYI, the local university is exempt from city inspection. They inspect their own work...

[Wayner]

I hear you. The problem is no city or county or even state can bypass Federal law. If your town doesn't require inspection by an authority, they are breaking a Federal Law. The NEC is the highest level to be supercided by no one. I'm sure if you google for a state electrical inspector in your state, one will pop up. (I am assuming you live in the US). If not, that's a different story.

Wayner 

[rustneversleeps]

Yes I know the NEC applies to everyone. The problem in my area is, inspections are done at the city/county level. There are no state inspectors that examine work done on a residential structure. In my county, if the work to be done is less than $500, no permit is needed, and therefore no inspection will be done.

That's kind of $%^# up if less than $500 then it doesn't need a permit. NEC applies to building like max number of 16 AWG in a 3/4" conduit is 13, but it would be tough to pull all these wires through a 3/4".

City does strange things. After I've been living in my house for four years, and the house is eight years old, I got this letter from the city said that they wanted to come and inspect the plumbing, and the air conditioning circuit. I asked them why now, they said while all the houses were coming up in this area, they were overwhelmed by such huge workload and some houses missed their inspection.

The inspector came in and I asked him now all the walls are closed up, what do you want to see? He asked if I ever had any trouble with the plumbing, I said no, then he said you are good, then sign it off. Then he made some comments about all the vinyl LPs that I have. Then he found this ground wire too close to the furnace, he said if I would move it further away from the furnace, then he would sign off the electrical, I said," oh yes, I'll move it immediately after you leave." Then he said," You are good then."

What a charactor.

[thunderbrick]

From Wikipedia:

The National Electrical Code, 2008 edition
The National Electrical Code (NEC), or NFPA 70, is a United States standard for the safe installation of electrical wiring and equipment. It is part of the National Fire Codes series published by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA). "National Electrical Code" and "NEC" are registered trademarks of the NFPA. While the NEC is not itself a U.S. law, NEC use is commonly mandated by state or local law, as well as in many jurisdictions outside of the United States. [1] The NEC codifies the requirements for safe electrical installations into a single, standardized source.

I didn't think the NEC was law per se;  after al, it changes when updated, and that doesn't make older home illegal.  Granted, states and municipalities can incorporate the NEC as part of local requirements, therefore law, but the NEC itself is not law, IMHO.

Agreed, I think having half-assed inspectors is a waste of time, but I have seen a helluva lot of dumb and dangerous things done by people too smart to ask for inspections.  And I have learned a lot from watching inspectors. 
Having said that I would also like to get a hold of the inspector who "inspected" the house my wife bought before I met her.  Since then I have had to jack the house up to replace the totally rotten termite-eaten beams that bastard missed.  I also know independent inspectors (find your own, not the ones the realtors suggest) who do a great job.

[ST-2A3]

I hear you. The problem is no city or county or even state can bypass Federal law. If your town doesn't require inspection by an authority, they are breaking a Federal Law. The NEC is the highest level to be supercided by no one. I'm sure if you google for a state electrical inspector in your state, one will pop up. (I am assuming you live in the US). If not, that's a different story.

Wayner 

If my city is breaking federal law, that is not my problem.

[Wayner]

While the book it self is not law, many rules and regulations are (from other agencies, like OSHA). That statement is a slippery slope.

FYI:
The NFPA-79 Electrical Standard deals with code for designing Industrial machines.
The NFPA-70 Deals with Arc Flash and the prevention of such and is not a building code.
UL is a non-profit (heh,heh) company that determines relative safeness of equipment.

Just as a side note (and this is a great discussion) many of these agencies adopt rules from each other (you know how the government runs, right?). So, there you go. As long as I brought up UL, there is also ETL, CE, ULc and a host of other governing, regulating or testing agencies out there. Are they all needed? I don't know. There are still 4 people everyday that get electrocuted or are involved in an arc-flash explosion (on average), and these are usually highly trained and licensed electricians.

[Wayner]

Oh ya, I forgot something.

If you violate a code, it's doesn't mean you're an evil criminal. The NEC "police" aren't going to come and get you, and perhaps, though the life of your home....who cares. However, the state electrical inspector can make you rip things out and re-do if he's a stickler otherwise you don't get the sticker on your electrical panel.

My key point to this whole topic is safety and liability. There are many possibilities that can happen. That is when some of these lay in the weeds laws or rules come out with big junkyard dog teeth, like in a court of law. I'm not telling anybody what to do. I'm telling you what I did (and do) and why I think it's a good idea that everybody get's their home inspected after they've done some work. It's just cheap peace of mind, at least for me it is.

Ta-da.

Wayner

[Bob in St. Louis]

In 1996 I bought a house that past inspection with flying colors.
In 2002 I had it inspected to put in on the market for sale.
The guy had to use a second sheet to continue writing the list of failures. NONE of which were items I changed or altered. His explanation was that, "laws change, codes are updated, things happen. Get over it pal, you're the one that called me. I'm just doing my job".
Everything had to pass before they would let me sell the home. Some of these were laughably ridiculous failures.
Wayner, having you home inspected is a good idea. I've thought about having our current residence inspected just simply because I've had my hand in just about every nook and cranny in the house. I helped build this house six years ago and served as my own general contractor. When the subs left, I continued working (and haven't stopped yet). So yea, I'd like to have it inspected for piece of mind.
However, I do fully anticipate a stupidly long list of failures. But I'll only concentrate on the ones I feel need my attention. The color of the address number being one of those items on the list will be ignored. I didn't have that option several years ago. I HAD to repaint the numbers before I sold the house. 

YMMV (from day to day)

Bob

[thunderbrick]

The last four posts (well, five if you include mine) are all very valid.  However, the more people you/we get involved, the more opinions and interpretations come into play and things get messy.  I bought an older house where the guy knew what he was doing.  That's why I re-did the whole damned thing, but at least I knew that going in and I like doing this stuff.  I just wish I had bought a good right-angle drill when I got started.

And Bob in St Louis, how they heck do you find the time to weigh in on so many threads with such dignity? 

[thunderbrick]

And just like all of our laws, new codes arise from somebody being stupid, and others proclaiming "Well!  We can't let THIS happen again!"
They just seem intent on disrupting the Darwin Principle.

[ST-2A3]

Oh ya, I forgot something.

If you violate a code, it's doesn't mean you're an evil criminal. The NEC "police" aren't going to come and get you, and perhaps, though the life of your home....who cares. However, the state electrical inspector can make you rip things out and re-do if he's a stickler otherwise you don't get the sticker on your electrical panel.

Stickers in a panel? What's that? There is no such animal around here... 

My key point to this whole topic is safety and liability. There are many possibilities that can happen. That is when some of these lay in the weeds laws or rules come out with big junkyard dog teeth, like in a court of law. I'm not telling anybody what to do. I'm telling you what I did (and do) and why I think it's a good idea that everybody get's their home inspected after they've done some work. It's just cheap peace of mind, at least for me it is.

Ah, but having it inspected does not excuse you from being named in a civil suit. If you are worried about that, you better carry a hefty "umbrella" policy...

[Bob in St. Louis]

And Bob in St Louis, how they heck do you find the time to weigh in on so many threads with such dignity? 

#1 I'm fortunate enough to one of the few lucky ones that is greatly underworked at my job. Most of my posts are done at my office desk. I don't post much at home because I'm too busy. 
#2 I've become very good at phone conversations 'half' listening to blabbering customers ramble on while I'm typing replies to you folks.
I can do both pretty well.
#3 Dignity. Wow, that's a new one. Thank you. 

Bob