[ipy]

I have considered adding a sub-woofer but find that implementation not practical for my set-up.  Of course cost is not no object, preferably in the US$5 to 6k range.

My room dimensions are 15.6 x 10.5 x 8.0 & currently using Focus Audio FS-788s speakers.

TIA.

[pbrstreetgang]

Have you been able to measure the LF output of your current setup? Are you looking for a more robust low end? I wonder if any room interactions are killing your current low end

[TerryO]

Have you been able to measure the LF output of your current setup? Are you looking for a more robust low end? I wonder if any room interactions are killing your current low end

I was wondering about the same thing. Small rooms are, many times, more critical of the acoustic environment than a large space. If the distance to the floor from the midwoofer and then to your ears is such that it arrives out of phase to the direct wave you'll have a big null. In addition are the various wall and ceiling reflections... well it becomes complicated pretty fast. There are some software packages that may help, but it's probably a good idea to just experiment first. It's cheaper and you don't have to wait for the arrival of your software purchase.
Is this a dedicated listening room that doesn't need to conform to WAF? Is the room actually a rectangle or is it open to another space?
Are the speakers on the long wall or the short one and do the speakers have a port on the back of the cabinets? How far from the speakers do you sit?

These are all important questions that may provide clues as to how to proceed.

Best Regards,
TerryO

[Tyson]

VMPS RM30's sound great in small rooms, and their tunable nature really allows you to adjust them to the specifics of your environment.

[Double Ugly]

The SP Technology Timepiece 3.0s may be what you're looking for.

Pictures of a pair residing with a happy owner in France:




Click here for more pictures and information about his system.

[Bigfish]

Let me second the recommendation made by Double Ugly.  The Timepiece 3.0s go down to 30 hz or below and I doubt you will feel you need a sub!

Ken

[TerryO]

Why is it that when a fellow has a problem, and he hasn't stated what it is exactly, everyone starts recommending their favorite speakers?
The Focus Audio website gives the FR of the FS-788 as 35Hz-25kHz plus/minus 3dB, so I hardly think that bass output is his problem.

Bigfish states that:
"The Timepiece 3.0s go down to 30 hz or below and I doubt you will feel you need a sub!"

The Timepiece 3.0 has on their website the following:

-3dB Points (anechoic)  30Hz & 24KHz

I really believe that "if" the Focus Audio website's response figures are correct (and perhaps they're not ), but if they are, a -3dB at 35Hz is still pretty robust bass given what normally is a usual amount of room gain.

BTW: I also have a favorite speaker, but I'm not sure that it would solve his problem any more than any other speaker. As I mentioned above, he may need to experiment as I'm convinced at this point, without further clarification, that the room may very well be the whole problem.

BTW: I'm sure that the Timepiece 3.0 speakers are very good, and I'm not slamming them, or the people that like them.

Best Regards,
TerryO

[ipy]

Have you been able to measure the LF output of your current setup? Are you looking for a more robust low end? I wonder if any room interactions are killing your current low end

Good point.  No I have not done any LF measurements & reading the responses thus far, perhaps I should.  I don't think there's a total lack of LF output,  in fact on some CDs there may be too much of it.  I do wonder the room &/or positioning of the speakers may have something to do with this.

Have you been able to measure the LF output of your current setup? Are you looking for a more robust low end? I wonder if any room interactions are killing your current low end

...Is this a dedicated listening room that doesn't need to conform to WAF? Is the room actually a rectangle or is it open to another space?
Are the speakers on the long wall or the short one and do the speakers have a port on the back of the cabinets? How far from the speakers do you sit?

These are all important questions that may provide clues as to how to proceed.

Best Regards,
TerryO

Yes, it's a dedicated room & rectangle shape with a door opening at the right side of the listening position.  I listen with the door open.
The speakers are back ported & placed on the short wall, approx. 4.5' from the back wall & 1.5' from the sides.  I sit approx. 6' from the speakers with approx. 3' from the back wall/cabinets.  I have Realtrap's Minitraps at the front vertical wall corners similar to the diagram below

& Minitraps as well front & back ceiling corners like the diagram below.

Let me second the recommendation made by Double Ugly.  The Timepiece 3.0s go down to 30 hz or below and I doubt you will feel you need a sub!

Ken

Thanks both & I shall keep the Timepiece speakers as an option after looking/fixing any room issues.

[pbrstreetgang]

Are you so brash to say that SP speakers and 1200 Watt Digiamps wont fix this poor mans bass nodes and possible suckouts? Your not playing like a good little boy.

Why is it that when a fellow has a problem, and he hasn't stated what it is exactly, everyone starts recommending their favorite speakers?
The Focus Audio website gives the FR of the FS-788 as 35Hz-25kHz plus/minus 3dB, so I hardly think that bass output is his problem.

Bigfish states that:
"The Timepiece 3.0s go down to 30 hz or below and I doubt you will feel you need a sub!"

The Timepiece 3.0 has on their website the following:

-3dB Points (anechoic)  30Hz & 24KHz

I really believe that "if" the Focus Audio website's response figures are correct (and perhaps they're not ), but if they are, a -3dB at 35Hz is still pretty robust bass given what normally is a usual amount of room gain.

BTW: I also have a favorite speaker, but I'm not sure that it would solve his problem any more than any other speaker. As I mentioned above, he may need to experiment as I'm convinced at this point, without further clarification, that the room may very well be the whole problem.

BTW: I'm sure that the Timepiece 3.0 speakers are very good, and I'm not slamming them, or the people that like them.

Best Regards,
TerryO

[Double Ugly]

Why is it that when a fellow has a problem, and he hasn't stated what it is exactly, everyone starts recommending their favorite speakers?

Because that's what he asked for. 

Full range speakers that works in a small room?

If you want to engage the OP in a discussion about acoustics or the accuracy of a manufacturer's stated specifications, no problem, but I see no need to question my or anyone else's motives for answering the stated question.

FWIW, I believe your chosen approach is not only valid, but something the OP should definitely consider before dropping another $5k-$6k.  However, since I have nothing to offer in that regard (I am too inexperienced with acoustic problems and solutions to engage), I simply addressed the question with the best 'answer' I've heard in his price range and room size.

Are you so brash to say that SP speakers and 1200 Watt Digiamps wont fix this poor mans bass nodes and possible suckouts? Your not playing like a good little boy.

Please don't do that.

[tommylee]

good photo. good sound setup. www.audiocircle.com=2fcircles=2fSmileys=2faudiocircle/drool.gif
Drool

[TerryO]

Why is it that when a fellow has a problem, and he hasn't stated what it is exactly, everyone starts recommending their favorite speakers?

Because that's what he asked for. 

Full range speakers that works in a small room?

If you want to engage the OP in a discussion about acoustics or the accuracy of a manufacturer's stated specifications, no problem, but I see no need to question my or anyone else's motives for answering the stated question.

FWIW, I believe your chosen approach is not only valid, but something the OP should definitely consider before dropping another $5k-$6k.  However, since I have nothing to offer in that regard (I am too inexperienced with acoustic problems and solutions to engage), I simply addressed the question with the best 'answer' I've heard in his price range and room size.

Are you so brash to say that SP speakers and 1200 Watt Digiamps wont fix this poor mans bass nodes and possible suckouts? Your not playing like a good little boy.

Please don't do that.

I hope that I didn't come across as questioning anyone's motives, I tried to avoid that as I didn't think at the time, nor do I now, that anyone had any motive other than trying to give helpful advice. I attempted to make that clear in my previous posting and evidently I didn't succeed. My apologies to everyone for not having taken the time to write a better, more lucid message that could have (and should have) avoided any hint of an accusation.

Double U,
I think that the subject title: "Full range speakers that works in a small room?" led me to believe that he was trying to get fullrange speakers (his) to work in a small room and evidently others felt that he was requesting opinions as to which fullrange speakers will work in a small room.

Best Regards,
TerryO

[DaveC113]

ipy, I was just in a space about the same as you have, and it needed to be pretty dead for it to sound ok... bass traps helped a lot, so did absorption on the ceiling and behind the speakers. I also had a big overstuffed couch in the listening position, and wall to wall carpet with a heavy wool rug on top. Anyway, I'm no expert, so maybe search the acoustic circles about what others have done to make their small room listenable... I'm of the opinion that a small room will never be as good as a larger room, but it can be "ok"...

I also agree that a waveguide, such as used in the SP Techs, helps a lot in small rooms. 4" Single Drivers also do this well, I used (and still have) Omega XRS speakers I bought for this application. The room gain you get makes a sub optional in a smaller space. In my new, larger space the sub is needed more, but its stil x'ed over around 60 Hz which is low enough to blend well. 

Dave 

[Double Ugly]

I hope that I didn't come across as questioning anyone's motives, I tried to avoid that as I didn't think at the time, nor do I now, that anyone had any motive other than trying to give helpful advice. I attempted to make that clear in my previous posting and evidently I didn't succeed. My apologies to everyone for not having taken the time to write a better, more lucid message that could have (and should have) avoided any hint of an accusation.

No worries, Terry.  Fact is, I enjoy your posts, even to the point of occasionally checking the "last posts" in your profile to see what I've missed. 

Double U,
I think that the subject title: "Full range speakers that works in a small room?" led me to believe that he was trying to get fullrange speakers (his) to work in a small room and evidently others felt that he was requesting opinions as to which fullrange speakers will work in a small room.

Best Regards,
TerryO

Understood, which only goes to show how imprecise this medium can be.  As is the case with most audio-related things, there is no right or wrong answer, only what we perceive.  We perceived the OP's intent differently, and though one of us is apparently in error, it is virtually impossible to find fault in an honest perception IMO.

It is what it is. 

FWIW, I took the inclusion of a relatively hefty $5k-$6k target price range as a request for speaker recommendations.  I know of only a couple of people who've invested that kind of money in room treatments.

[JLM]

I enjoyed the GINI speakers at the AKFest last spring.  It was the only "affordable" speaker that could do reasonably deep bass without bass boom with the small rooms (about 12 ft x 15 ft).  In fact the only other speakers to go deep without boom were $4k open baffles and $6k transmission lines.

It used rather small separate transmission line passive subs (about $650/pair) driven by single 6 inch drivers.  In my experience small transmission lines are ideal for small rooms as they have a first order roll off that matches room gain and they open enough to have "speed".

[miklorsmith]

Full range can mean different things.  Strictly, it means dead-flat to 20 hz but this isn't practical in most any room.

Bass character can vary tremendously as well.  Different loading techniques will produce individual traits which [resonate] with different folks.

You aren't specific about what doesn't work in your room.  Is it just bass?  If so, figure out what your in-room response is doing is first.  Almost certainly you'll need some trapping.  If you don't have any first reflection treatments that's a major step too.  It's not that expensive to put together a measurement rig that will put some real information into what you're hearing.

Some kind of bass adjustment is a real boon.  I'll plug my speakers, the big Zus have full parametric EQ potential below 120 hz or so.  There are different ways to do this with other speakers as well, doug s. knows much about this though he's using subs.  Having lived with this capability there is no way I would consider a speaker that didn't have it.

[doug s.]

...Having lived with this capability there is no way I would consider a speaker that didn't have it.

what HE said.      tho, it can be difficult in a smaller room.  subs make it easier, tho, which may be counter-intuitive, at first...

doug s.

[THE_ANSWERS]

I have considered adding a sub-woofer but find that implementation not practical for my set-up.  Of course cost is not no object, preferably in the US$5 to 6k range.

My room dimensions are 15.6 x 10.5 x 8.0 & currently using Focus Audio FS-788s speakers.

TIA.

hey there, i was able to get great bass in a small room in a rather unscientific experimental way but please bear with me .    i put two speakers that had decent size woofs in the corners opposing the listening seat.     i built a passive crossover that is standard for sub/satellite separation.  the speakers wereplaced   r i g h t   in the corners, facing the corners diagonally, with the "open" part at about a 12 inch gap from the corner.  the other side of the speaker was just about against the wall.  maybe a napkin picture would be best.   anyways, i found that the reflection off the corner seemed to amplify the bass and having one of these in each corner cancelled out most of the " nodes" in the room.   better to use active crossovers and use real subs (small), but i think the trick of facing the cornerwith the speakers and having one in each corner works really well in a small room.     sorry if my description is confusing     a drawing would be much better but not sure how to add that.    maybe you like this idea and can try it out!!!!!!!   you can probably do it up real nice with 4 subs facing the corners.....

[marklivia]

Gallo Reference 3. Small footprint and fantastic. I've got mine setup in a room very much like yours. Speakers on the long wall about mid-point, my head near the back wall. Killer bass.

[mcullinan]

MErlin VSM-MX  FAntastic Fullrange 2 way.... You can get them used for around 4500.
Mike