humm..

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ratso

humm..
« on: 12 Aug 2008, 10:04 pm »
a hopefully not too stupid question regarding ground loop hums. does being 'off the grid' eliminate them or
just make it less likely to get one? i have been fighting a ground loop hum in my system for a while, and my
jensen transformer gave me some relief but didn't completely solve the problem. i have been thinking of just forgetting the idea of a tube preamp and going balanced SS (or possibly balanced tube like BAT) but
was wondering if i might have another option...

Mariusz

Re: humm..
« Reply #1 on: 12 Aug 2008, 10:55 pm »
Hi there
I absolutely feel your pain.
If you read my posts here but mostly on AgoN you will know how frustrating I got with that same problem. Conditioners, Granite Audio specialized product to eliminate the GL did nothing or very little.
Then Dodd preamp came alone and .........there you go.....hum that drove   me nuts was gone. Now I am upgrading to Vinnie's new Isabella pre which I had the pleasure to audition lately. It is dead quiet in battery mode as well when in AC/DC mode.
Keep in mind that I live in NY where AC is very polluted.

Mariusz

ratso

Re: humm..
« Reply #2 on: 13 Aug 2008, 12:18 am »
thanx mariusz that is very helpful. but it could be that just a happy matching of equipment cured your problem, so i still wonder if it is POSSIBLE to get a ground loop hum if you are running batteries?

Mariusz

Re: humm..
« Reply #3 on: 13 Aug 2008, 01:27 am »
No hum with Dodd and no hum with Isabella.
This year alone I tried Supratek, Jas, Granite Audio, Consonance - Opera Audio preamps and they all hummmmmed. Best of the bunch in regards to noise was Supratek preamp.......sonically it was also the best from the above mentioned.
Battery preamp seems to do the trick.
I just recently install dedicated line but did not had a chance to evaluate its effect. It did however help in my other home, where I have no noise whatsoever.

TONEPUB

Re: humm..
« Reply #4 on: 13 Aug 2008, 03:58 am »
thanx mariusz that is very helpful. but it could be that just a happy matching of equipment cured your problem, so i still wonder if it is POSSIBLE to get a ground loop hum if you are running batteries?

It is definitely possible, though it's not the fault of the Red Wine stuff.

I use the 30.2 in one of my systems and when I added a subwoofer, it drove me nuts.
When I unplugged the line outs from my preamp (Nagra PL-L) it immediately went
away.  Floated the ground on the sub and all my hum was gone.

It can definitely drive you crazy!  Anyone ever had a Triumph or an MG?

:)

wilsynet

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Re: humm..
« Reply #5 on: 13 Aug 2008, 05:36 am »
I am not an expert, but ...

If you go totally off the grid, then there will be no ground loop hum.  But being totally off the grid may not be practical.

If you were to get the Isabella (with DAC) as preamp, Macbook as source, Signature 30.2 as amplifier and an active subwoofer, then you'll be okay.  This is because the Isabella and 30.2 are both off the grid, and the Macbook has a non-grounded power adapter.  In this situation, you have only one grounded device, the powered subwoofer, and hence no ground loop.

But if you add a CDP to the picture and you go coaxial digital or analog RCAs to the Isabella, then you have a potential ground loop problem between the CDP and the powered subwoofer.  If you use optical instead, then there's no electrical connection, and hence no ground loop.

If you didn't have the active subwoofer, then CDP over coaxial digital or analog RCAs would be no problem as this is now the only AC powered device, and hence, once again, no ground loop.

If you do have ground loop hum, I think the best way to fix it is to have an electrician come in fix the faulty ground.  All wires entering a structure are supposed to be grounded through the same ground source.  This may very well be cheaper than buying all new equipment.

If you've got everything plugged into the same wall outlet, and you've still got hum, then there's something funny going on.  Aside from ground faults, I've found that the cable (television, satellite) connection is often the culprit here.  Do you have a dedicated 2-channel system, or do you have it doing double duty as a HT system?  Or perhaps a DVD player which is connected to your television and your stereo?

Anyway, like I said, I'm not an expert.  Just piecing together some things I've read, ground loop problems I've encountered before, etc.  Totally happy to be utterly wrong. =)

TONEPUB

Re: humm..
« Reply #6 on: 13 Aug 2008, 06:07 am »
IT's not a matter of having a faulty ground in the house. 

It depends on how associated pieces of gear that hook up
to the AC line have their internal ground structures addressed.

Im sure if my whole system were off the grid, it would not
be a problem...

Vinnie R.

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Re: humm..
« Reply #7 on: 14 Aug 2008, 12:22 am »
a hopefully not too stupid question regarding ground loop hums. does being 'off the grid' eliminate them or
just make it less likely to get one? i have been fighting a ground loop hum in my system for a while, and my
jensen transformer gave me some relief but didn't completely solve the problem. i have been thinking of just forgetting the idea of a tube preamp and going balanced SS (or possibly balanced tube like BAT) but
was wondering if i might have another option...

Hi ratso,

Thank you for your post.  If you are totally off-the-grid (e.g. RWA Isabella battery tube preamp with built-in dac, and RWA Signature 30.2 or 70.2 monos), there is no chance of a ground loop (especially if the battery chargers are unplugged). 

Other off-the-grid option is the stand-alone Isabellina dac and the Signature 30.2 integrated. 

Feeding the Isabella's built-in dac (or stand-alone Isabellina dac) with either the USB, Coax, or Optical inputs isolate the source (in case your source is not off the grid), so there is still no chance of a ground loop.

If you are using a RWA amplifier with other components that are AC powered, you can still have trouble with ground loops and hum, but is is much less likely.  Very few of my customers do, and usually "cheater plugs," or connecting the battery charger to a switchable outlet will remove any source of ground loop. 

Hope this helps,

Vinnie

JeffB

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Re: humm..
« Reply #8 on: 14 Aug 2008, 01:09 am »
I found this article a while back about the causes of hum.
Interesting stuff.
http://www.rane.com/note110.html