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for the same money, any of your above-mentioned turntables, purchased used (mebbe w/the exception of the rega), will easily outperform the technics, especially if ya give 'em motor & power supply upgrades. ...
Quote from: doug s. for the same money, any of your above-mentioned turntables, purchased used (mebbe w/the exception of the rega), will easily outperform the technics, especially if ya give 'em motor & power supply upgrades. ...How so?Your statement is a thermodynamic impossibility.
how so? it will sound better.
Doug,I'm not veering this thread out of context, like you usually like to do. I asked the question to have you *think* about the performance requirements of handling transients and meditate on it. My input was to bring awareness of the artificial enhancements usually put into analog belt driven rigs, as opposed to pitch accuracy and superior information retrieval brought about by proper speed/rotational stability...... In the belt driven transport, there is no mechanical contact causing drag and the rotation is from 300-500RPM's, so there is less vibration than with a DD motor with a shaft attached to the CD. My transport is the entry level, but the other models use a ceramic flywheel.
francisco - ya must be confusing me w/someone else - rarely, if ever are my posts not germaine to the topic - certainly not in this case!
i am well aware what speed/rotational stability brings to the analog - and digital - party. direct drive has its plusses & minuses, as well as belt drive. the constant hunting of typical direct-drive systems, due to error correction, is a direct-drive liability, as well as tendency to induce motor hum/vibration into the playback chain. belt-drive has to do w/the relative innacuracy of a rubber or thread or ? belt. improvements can be had in both; improved power supply & motor is one way to improve...
yer cec transport may be more musical than yer mccormack transport, even tho the mac provides better extension, stability, & power - according to *you*. (excuse me if i'm off a bit on the exact differences, i dint go back thru yer comments to check.) i know yure looking to improve these characteristics of the cec w/some modwright mods... while i personally haven't ever heard the cec transport, i suspect much of what ya like about it is cuz it's belt-driven, which is specifically what ya don't necessarily like about belt-drive turntables: "... the artificial enhancements usually put into analog belt driven rigs, as opposed to pitch accuracy and superior information retrieval brought about by proper speed/rotational stability..." this same statement applies equally to digital playback. and, yer comments about the cec's adwantages of belt-drive are also similar for turntables.
my point is, that proper speed/rotational stability *is* awailable on the better belt-drive turntables, and can be further improved w/better p/s & motors.
doug s. wrote:my point is, that proper speed/rotational stability *is* awailable on the better belt-drive turntables, and can be further improved w/better p/s & motors.That's absolutely true, but NOT at the level of the TTs I mentioned.
================for the third time - i tink yure wrong. ok?
can we yust agree to disagree, & leave it at that, or do ya wanna beat a dead horse?
certainly, ya can do better winyl, but as you amply demonstrate - it's at a cost... meanwhile, relatively inexpensive winyl - BELT-DRIVE winyl - will sound better than most any digital rig - at least to my ears.
as for whether or not the oracle makes anyone's list, do ya tink i really care?
I know--what ewe think it's a thermodynamic imposibility. That's why I asked ewe to prove it and ewe haven't. It's not that hard.
Ewe have been basing your thinking on false premises and lack of direct experience: "the constant hunting of typical direct-drive systems, due to error correction, is a direct-drive liability, as well as tendency to induce motor hum/vibration into the playback chain. The 1200 uses a *bidirectional* DC motor running on a quartz clock and using a speed sensing coil around the motor. The mechanism applies minute voltage corrections instantly--from each direction--to handle transients, warps and friction. It thinks. The more instant power available, the better the music. That's what I've been doing these past few weeks--improving the power delivery and for every time the electrical resistance is lowered the gains in strength are just impressive.
There's no way a lesser belt drive can successfully plow through those transients. (thermodynamic impossibility).
this is totally meaningless. it really isn't possible to prove someting that makes no sense.
any mechanism that applies woltage correction means it is correcting an error *after* it happens. an error cannot be corrected *before* it occurs. which is why a better power supply will improve the sonics - which is what ya experienced when ya upgraded the p/s to your technics: less error correction needed, more inherently stable rotation.
You guys need to start a seperate thread to discuss DD vs Belt Drive. I am sorry but this is getting annoying now.
Doug, it is ewe, not me, who springs at the assertions ewe disagree with anytime ewe see them. All ewe have to do is ignore them.
Belt drive does NOT impart so much garbage into the turntable itself.
I... In many ways it stomps my digital gear. I wonder if this old TT with a Grado gold cartridge can sound this good how amazing would a better analog setup sound? I'm thinking about selling my digital gear so that I can upgrade my TT, etc. Has anyone pulled the plug on their digital gear to concentrate on analog? How has it worked out? Any regrets?
