[BikeWNC]

I've been spending a lot of quality time with my old Marantz TT lately.  In many ways it stomps my digital gear.  I wonder if this old TT with a Grado gold cartridge can sound this good how amazing would a better analog setup sound?  I'm thinking about selling my digital gear so that I can upgrade my TT, etc.  Has anyone pulled the plug on their digital gear to concentrate on analog?  How has it worked out? Any regrets?

[Carlman]

Your DAC is about as good as it gets.  What would you do with all your CD's?

I listen to both.  Some music I really prefer on vinyl... mostly older jazz and vocalists.  I've often thought that records do sound so good that I might go all vinyl and forget about the CD's but, I can't.  Some bands I like don't produce vinyl... but, mainly, the whole ritual gets old quick... especially when you're a perfectionist.  (wipe three times with the wet, 3 times with the dry... etc.)

So, I've thought about it, but only briefly... just way too much trouble and I'd be missing out on too much good music that's only on CD.

[BikeWNC]

Carl,

I don't think that I could go only analog for the very reasons you mentioned.  Also, with a 3yo running around the house its probably not very practical.  However, I'm really enjoying vinyl right now, even with the constraints my analog setup presents.  I have zero budget for improvements to my system, so any changes must come from the sale of some other piece of gear.  I go through a vinyl phase every so often but then the convenience of digital usually wins out.  Not because I think it sounds better, but because it's just easier to plop in a cd and forget about it. I guess I'm just beating my head against the wall because I want to upgrade my analog but can't deal with the expense right now.  We can all identify with that.

[Tonto Yoder]

I often prefer vinyl for serious listening and once thought about focusing
on LP's for the main system and playing CD's mostly in a secondary pseudo-home theater system.  Eventually, though I wanted to hear a Holly Cole CD (or some other title) on the big rig and liked that it played 60 minutes without me getting up and "flipping" the CD. I suspect you'd regret cashing in your digital even if it DID allow you to hear better analogue.

[spudco]

I'm going in the opposite direction.  I'm considering scrapping my vinyl rig because it has become an overly expensive art object.  It sound good with a great record, but even new vinyl often has problems.  Plus the ritual is just too much for day to day fun.  Any one interested in an Audiomeca Roamnce table/arm with cart and ic?

[Pancho Urbano]

Why should we have to choose?  Digital formats sound increasingly good.  All the excitement around digital amps seems to tell us that CDs, SACDs, and DVD Audio formats can sound warmer through the emerging technology.  Best of all, as some have said, digital is easy, portable, and  can be transferred to your computer and iPod, etc.  

Vinyl sounds better.  Yes, it is a different kind of listening - the kind that requires you to get up and flip the dang thing, and clean it as well.  When I am litening to vinyl, that is part of the fun.  Most indie lables (the best music anyway) are releasing their new stuff on vinyl.  I just picked up new records from My Morning Jacket, The Black Keys, and Rocket From the Crypt - and they sound great!  I also picked up Beggars Banquet recently for $5.  Tough to beat.  Not as clean as the CD, but more fun (an original pressing).

So, why choose?  Keep both.  Once I figure out a way to digitize my vinyl collection, I can have the best of both worlds!
-pu

[Psychicanimal]

All the excitement around digital amps seems to tell us that CDs, SACDs, and DVD Audio formats can sound warmer through the emerging technology.

What is that supposed to mean?

Dude, I've got a classic Forté 4 class A power amp and it works well with anything it's fed--whether CD or vinyl.  Lak bought a Bel Canto digital amp to replace his 5W SET's and the Bel Canto is up for sale!

What digital lovers need to reallize is that a belt drive transport is THE way to go...

[Pancho Urbano]

What is that supposed to mean?

Dude - it just means that some folks are excited about digital amps that are cheap (Sharp, Panasonic), because people with limited budgets can experiment.  I haven't heard them, but a lot of the discourse that has emerged seems to be positive - glowing, actually, considering the prices.  

Anyway, I'm glad vinyl and digital work great on people's systems.  

[Fathom7]

I don't believe I would abandon one format for the other.  For me it's an issue of difference and convenience.

I haven't ventured back into the realm of vinyl yet but plan to -- requires amp upgrade as well since I don't currenlty have one with a phono stage nor do I have the TT in place.  HOWEVER:

I run the following inputs:  CD & HDCD off of one player
                                       SACD out of my DVD player
                                       Analog off of an RTR machine

I own a host of vinyl that hasn't seen the light of day for a very long time but is is in wonderful condition.  The RTR allows me to play back some stuff I recorded off of some of the vinyl as well -- custom made for different occasions and really worth listening too.  Would I consider going all one way or another?  I really doubt it.   I don't have much cross-over and duplication between vinyl and CD and this is deliberate.  If I find a CD or even SACD that dupes the vinyl (and after I have the TT etc) I will give a critical listen to see which I prefer and not play the other.  But the versatility is nice to have.  Plus there is some real odd stuff I have on vinyl that won't likely see the light of day on digital.

Anyway, great thread and shows both the philosophies and warring among the camps.

[Psychicanimal]

What is that supposed to mean?

What I asked you is to explain that CDs can sound *warmer* through the emerging technology.  That sounds weird to me--dude.

[BikeWNC]

Pancho,

If you digitize your LPs won't they lose that analog magic?  I guess you could control the process such that the full dynamic range of the source was kept, so depending on the record it might sound better than a commercial CD of the same recording.  I have a TacT RCS with an AD card but have been reluctant to use it with the TT cause I think it would just sound like a CD with surface noise.   Perhaps I should give it a try.

As for choosing between analog and digital, well I do have to choose within the context of a sane budget.  The cost of good analog seems much higher than good digital so while I probably will not liquidate my digital front end in the pursuit of better analog, it will be some time before I can get new (to me) analog gear.

Andy

[Tonto Yoder]

Digitizing vinyl:  I haven't done this, but Michael Fremer of Stereophile is using the Alesis Masterlink as a review tool.  Supposedly he records a turntable under review and later compares the sound to another TT (when the first TT is no longer available for direct comparison).

[Pancho Urbano]

Duuuuuuude -

I'm being unclear - I haven't heard anything (as in listening - I've not had the chance to audition any of the digital amps).  I've only read that people think digital amps sound less harsh than most SS amps and more like tubes - which I take as a warmer sound.  Its just a subjective description - the kind that litter audio discussions and wine tastings alike.  Essentially, we have a phenomenon (quality of sound) that is outside of discourse in terms of its properties.  And we use language to give it meaning.  But there is a flaw - the language we use usually refers to something else (warmth refers literally to heat) at the denotative level.  So, we just do our best with the words we have and hope people can make the connotative link (in this case - warmth does not refer to temperature, but to a quality of sound).  I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

I'm also assuming that people I've read are not comparing the panasonic or Sharp products to SS amps that approach the stratosphere in terms of price points.  Probably compared to mid-fi gear.  Its just a thought: digital listening is become more interesting for people at lower price points.  In all honesty - I don't know - I've only read, not heard.

Tsunami - yes, I will indeed lose the analog sound when I digitize my LP collection - but I will feel better about buying vinyl because I know that I can use it more flexibly - minus sound quality - in various digital forms.

[doug s.]

... As for choosing between analog and digital, well I do have to choose within the context of a sane budget. The cost of good analog seems much higher than good digital so while I probably will not liquidate my digital front end in the pursuit of better analog, it will be some time before I can get new (to me) analog gear.

andy, think about it - yer middling turntable "stomps in many ways"a wery respectable digital rig. ("stomping in many ways" are your words!   )

ya don't have to sell yer digital rig to improve yer winyl, if ya can scrape up even a few bucks, imo. careful shopping will allow ya to nab a used turntable for $500 or so, that will shame most *any* digital rig, imo, when combined w/a half-decent cartridge & fono stage. i've seen well tempered's, oracle's, sota's, in this price-range, to name a few...

doug s.

[Rocket]

Hi Guys,

I wouldn't say that i am dumping my digital system (perpetual technologies p3a modwright level 1) it has a very good sound quality.

I am in the process of buying a turntable as i have about 100 lps lying around doing nothing.  There are lot's of choices at very good prices if you live in the us.  For example a VPI scout is quoted at $850us without tonearm and this is one of the TT's i'm considering.  In OZ is sells for about $1480 au.

I think you could probably buy a very good sounding TT for under $1000us.

Regards

Rocket

[Psychicanimal]

Why would anyone would get rid of music (and the gear to play it) that is not available in the other format and vice versa?  That does not make sense.

I can see why some people get frustrated with digital, but there's succesful ways to deal with the obstacles.  In the end digital and analog are just diferent flavors and my goal is to make my digital and analog rigs to sound as close to each other as possible.  Digital has an important advantage that gets overlooked constantly: perfect pitch.  The majority of the vinyl camp goes for a setup that is geared to enhance lushness and space at the expense of the life, pace and attack of the music.  They go for belt drive TTs with moving coils that more often than not exaggerate soundstage and high frequencies.  On top of that they use tubes to attain an overall 'warmness and fullness'.  The more I improve the power delivery of my modded Technics 1200's outboard  power supply the faster, fuller, louder and tighter the music gets.  Transients rise fast and sharp, their decay leaving behind so much ambient information the soundstage fills--but in a very precise, controlled and defined way.  The sound is getting closer to the positive attributes of CDs.  It would take a lot of money to do that with a belt drive.  It's not going to happen with a $2.5K VPI, Oracle, Michell, SOTA, Rega, Linn, whatever.  Not a chance.

My suggestion is to go direct drive for analog and belt drive for digital.  Belt driven transports are so much musical it's a total paradigm shift.   They still need adequate power filtration (balanced filtration--both hot and neutral) and excellent cryo treated power cords to work at their best.

With psychic power and primal intensity,

P/A

[Hantra]

I'm going in the opposite direction.

Me too.  The work and expense negates any sound quality differences for me.  

B

[jcoat007]

Well I am continually upgrading both and spend time in both formats.  I love vinyl and the ritual of cleaning and the occassional "pop" and "click" doesn't bother me.  My digital rig is undergoing some new inprovements as we speak, but I think I am getting close to having both formats at a very nice level.  

It's all good.

[doug s.]

...The more I improve the power delivery of my modded Technics 1200's outboard power supply the faster, fuller, louder and tighter the music gets. Transients rise fast and sharp, their decay leaving behind so much ambient information the soundstage fills--but in a very precise, controlled and defined way. The sound is getting closer to the positive attributes of CDs. It would take a lot of money to do that with a belt drive. It's not  going to happen with a $2.5K VPI, Oracle, Michell, SOTA, Rega, Linn, whatever. Not a chance.  

My suggestion is to go direct drive for analog and belt drive for digital. Belt driven transports are so much musical it's a total paradigm shift. They still need adequate power filtration (balanced filtration--both hot and neutral) and excellent cryo treated power cords to work at their best...

i guess here is where we can agree to disagree.  w/o getting into specific areas of playback presentation, for overall *musicality*, i believe, as i stated prewiously, that most *any* decent analog rig, awailable used for $500, will surpass most any digital rig at any price.   for $2500, if set up properly, an analog rig will be more musical than any digital rig extant.

of course, power supply helps.   true for belt drive as well as for direct-drive turntables.  (and, francisco, afaik, the marantz 6300 *is* a direct-drive deck.)  the origin-live dc motor kit was a big improvement to my turntable, as was further addition of a mondo lab-grade power supply.  improvements are in the areas you talk about - more accurate & stable platter speed *does* allow winyl playback to come wery close to digital in areas where digital excels.  but, even before the addition of these items, i would still prefer the overall sonic presentation of a used $500 turntable (direct or belt-drive), to all but the most extreme digital rigs.  would i abandon one for the other?  no - as long as software isn't awailable  in both formats, i will certainly always have digital & winyl.  

as far as the superiority of your tweeked out technics to the above 'tables ya mention?  well, my opinion is if ya wanna buy a new turntable, for the price, a tweeked-out technics for ~$1k will be awfully hard to beat.  but, for the same money, any of your above-mentioned turntables, purchased used (mebbe w/the exception of the rega), will easily outperform the technics, especially if ya give 'em motor & power supply upgrades.

ymmv,

doug s.

[doug s.]

regarding the care & feeding of winyl, i have never obsessed over this.  once in a while, if needed, i will hand-wash a record over the sink, w/mild dish soap & a sponge, drying w/a soft lint-free cloth.  when the record gets played, a keith monks record-sweeper tracks the record w/a soft brush simultaneously w/the tonearm, keeping the record & needle dust-free, while also eliminating a lot of static, as the monks device is grounded, w/carbon-fibre mixed in w/the animal-hair brush bristles.  before i got the monks device a few years ago, i had excellent results w/one of those old watts dust-bugs.  the vast majority of my record collection, dating back to the 60's, is still eminently playable...  the records in bad shape would likely be that way even w/the most anal-retentive treatment, imo.  some winyl yust plain sucks, straight from the factory.

doug s.