[carusoracer]

WTB: Gold Lion Re Issue Quads KT88

Would like to have matched set w/boxes. Can PM if do not want to post to thread.
Thanks for looking

[richidoo]

I have heard good things about these tubes, Mark! Jim McShane has them if you get no takers.
Rich

[jrebman]

Mark,

You can also pick them up for $110 a pair from cryoset.

-- Jim

[arthurs]

I bought 2 quads from these guys and they were perfect, flawless transaction...

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstube&1220136659

[carusoracer]

Arthurs,

How do you like them?

[Jerrym303]

Someone posted some on Agon a day or two ago in the 5ar4 ad.

Jerry

[zybar]

I can highly recommend Jim McShane and suggest you buy from him if you buy new.

I purchased two matched quads from Jim and have had zero issues.

George

[arthurs]

Arthurs,

How do you like them?

It's a great tube, quiet, good balance and nice tone.  I still prefer the VAC branded KT88's by a very slim margin, but the Gold Lion's are excellent.

[Levi]

I have 3 original Gold Lions KT88 that may need a good home.

[richidoo]

Very cool pic Levi!!

[Levi]

Thanks. 

I have to get them tubes tested.  I know they worked.  They are so precious that I know I will not use them. 

[Freo-1]

Yes, the Gold Lion re-issues sound great!

However, a minor word of caution (FWIW)

I, along with some other folks at other audio forums have had trouble with reliability of these.  There was a bad batch of them that had failures of 8-10% as stated by the re-sellers (It might be higher, but who knows). They either had an internal short, or had developed a bias runaway problem.  Separate from that batch, bias runaway issues have know to occur with some people's setup after a period of time.

There was numerous feedback, ranging from "Your amp is at fault" to "me too". Most folks who had trouble never went back to them. As for myself, I went back several times, as I really like the sound of them.  However, after two different blue light shows, and five accounts of bias runaway with the bloody little devils, I finally gave up on them.  I got tired of replacing bias resistors. 

I now must also mention that ALL the other KT88/6550 types I've used in the amp DO NOT behave like this.  The salient point here is that ALL the other types tried/used have performance data published on them, while the KT88 Gold Lion Re-Issues do not.  So, with that bit of data, I suspect that the Gold Lion Re-Issue, while a fine sounding tube, has one or more charactristics that deviates (however slightly) from the standard. 

Mind you, I'm not trashing the tube.  It sounds wonderful (the best current production type out there), and is bettered only by real NOS 6550/KT88 types of yesteryear.  What I am pointing out is that you MAY experience premature bias runaway problems, and may need to adjust the grid resistor/coupling cap setup to optimize the tube in order to maintain some sort of reliability. However, doing that would take some of the fun out of tube rolling, as that will affect all the other 6550/KT88 types that you may wish to try.

By the way, I had a tech go through the amp twice with a fine tooth comb, and it is fine (no issues).

With that bit of caution said,  Good Luck, and Happy Listening!! 

[DaveC113]

Freo, thats scary...  I just had an issue with a jj 5ar4 in my preamp shorting.

Jrebman lent me 2 of the GLs to try in my Simple SE amp, driving Omega XRS speakers. The other tubes I have are the Tung Sol 6550 reissues. I probably have 40 hours on the GLs, maybe a few hundred on the TS. So far, my impressions are the TS are more extended, in both directions. There is more bass and lower frequency bass, and the highs sound less rolled off than the GL tubes. The TS are also more holographic, and sound is more detached from the speakers. This is ultimately the deciding factor, the GL just don't do it for me to the degree the TS tubes do. I will say the GLs have a nice midrange bloom, and the tonality is very pleasant with some instruments (the sax sounds great) and vocals, but it sounds ultimately less neutral than the TS. I could certainly see how some people might like the GL better for this reason. I'll post if the GLs open up more, but at this point I doubt it. They haven't changed much the last couple days.

Dave   

[Freo-1]

Thanks for the feedback, Dave, and yes, it is a bit scary

I think each application is unique, and the choice of driver tubes can make a difference.  For example, in my rig, with KT88 types, the 7044 was the driver tube of choice. However, with NOS 6650 types, either 5687 or 7119 works much better. The 5687 is a great sounding tube, and the 7119 is no slouch either.  Depending on what music is played, and the flavor of NOS 6550 (Tung sol, GE, or Sylvania) the 5687 will be better in some cases, while the 7119 is better in others. The 7044 with the 6550 is just a bit too recessed for my tastes.

Tube rollers: Roll On!!

[pbrstreetgang]

Freo, thats scary...  I just had an issue with a jj 5ar4 in my preamp shorting.

Jrebman lent me 2 of the GLs to try in my Simple SE amp, driving Omega XRS speakers. The other tubes I have are the Tung Sol 6550 reissues. I probably have 40 hours on the GLs, maybe a few hundred on the TS. So far, my impressions are the TS are more extended, in both directions. There is more bass and lower frequency bass, and the highs sound less rolled off than the GL tubes. The TS are also more holographic, and sound is more detached from the speakers. This is ultimately the deciding factor, the GL just don't do it for me to the degree the TS tubes do. I will say the GLs have a nice midrange bloom, and the tonality is very pleasant with some instruments (the sax sounds great) and vocals, but it sounds ultimately less neutral than the TS. I could certainly see how some people might like the GL better for this reason. I'll post if the GLs open up more, but at this point I doubt it. They haven't changed much the last couple days.

Dave   

Selling them?

[Levi]

My findings are somewhat reversed.  My Tesla KT88 has more bass impact and extended highs versus the Tungsol 6550.  On the other hand, midrange is more pronounced in the Tungsol 6550 with less bass.  The amp is a MacIntosh MC-60s.

Freo, thats scary...  I just had an issue with a jj 5ar4 in my preamp shorting.

Jrebman lent me 2 of the GLs to try in my Simple SE amp, driving Omega XRS speakers. The other tubes I have are the Tung Sol 6550 reissues. I probably have 40 hours on the GLs, maybe a few hundred on the TS. So far, my impressions are the TS are more extended, in both directions. There is more bass and lower frequency bass, and the highs sound less rolled off than the GL tubes. The TS are also more holographic, and sound is more detached from the speakers. This is ultimately the deciding factor, the GL just don't do it for me to the degree the TS tubes do. I will say the GLs have a nice midrange bloom, and the tonality is very pleasant with some instruments (the sax sounds great) and vocals, but it sounds ultimately less neutral than the TS. I could certainly see how some people might like the GL better for this reason. I'll post if the GLs open up more, but at this point I doubt it. They haven't changed much the last couple days.

Dave   

[jrebman]

Selling them?
[/quote]

He better not .

I just lent lent him the pair to try.  Dave's amp also uses an ECC99 driver tube and is a power amp only, so there is the preamps contribution to figure in as well.  Not to say that what Dave is hearing is wrong, just that's one configuration only and I don't believe he intends it as a blanket description of the tube.

-- Jim

[tvr2500m]

I've had a similar experience to Freo-1.  In matched quads, some tubes would be hot (couldn't get them into the bias range recommended by the amplifier manufacturer), a tube or two would go into thermal runaway (which I was able to catch before something got damaged), some tubes showed shorts on a tube tester which seemed to clear up by themselves.  Despite the issues, the first quads I bought sounded INCREDIBLE!  Let me say that again - INCREDIBLE.  But the issues led me not to trust the tubes so I returned them for replacements.  The replacements showed similar issues but didn't sound as good, and they didn't change character even after quite a bit of use.  I didn't feel like sending these back too so I've still got these tubes.  They sound very good, but not like the first quads I had.

The tubes that've been working best for me are the GE 6550As with welded plates, Sylvania 6550s, and just about anything from Shuguang; the Shuggie 6550A-98s (that have GE-style straight-sided bottles) and the KT88-98 are the best sounding power tubes of any vintage or make in my gear to my ears.  These tubes can be problematic, but they're much less pricey than the Gold Lion Reissues (I've paid as little as $5 a tube, and often even for a new tube, and never more than $20, with the Shuggies).  Of vintage, I have had the best results with the Sylvanias.

I certainly recommend giving the Gold Lion Reissues.  Bought from a reputable tube seller should help mitigate inconvenience and you'll get the experience of using the tubes, and experience is what it's all about.

- SJ

[DaveC113]

Yes, I've heard stuff that was great in my system be not-so-great in another... also, there are more similarities than differences between them, both audible and physical. The audible differences are subtle with the possible exception of bass between the two. I assume they are both built at the same plant(???) and a lot of the internals look identical.

...and they didn't change character even after quite a bit of use.

Its a little premature to judge, but this is what I've been feeling with the ones I have...