[ArthurDent]

Esteemed Sonicologists -

Would appreciate thoughts and suggestions on the re-establishment of the vinyl portion of my system. I have broused the prior 32 pages of threads in the circle so as to hopefully not ask any really stupid questions, and gleen prior information offered with regards to this deck, of which there was little. I have noted the DD decks are currently considered a cost effective and desireable route for startup, but given the relatively recent re-creation of my system after 20 years, budget (as well as time currently) are considerations.

Deck was purchased new circa '80, replaced a Pioneer DD that I just could get the sound out of I wanted at the time. It hasn't been run in probably 15 years, resting for the time it was to be called back to service. It's stock, stock tonearm, with a Grado G+ cart. {note - Mr TCH, if you are still looking for specs on the G+ advise. I have the data sheet, though am sure I never changed stylus, so if the Shibata wasn't stock can't help there. Advise & I can either post the info or scan & email.}

I have picked up on the suggestions for dampening on the shell head for the Grado, so that's on the list of things to do. Probably want additional platter dampening, and maybe some of clay in the base ? (don't think I can go the top of the base route though- those pics were truly horrific from a visual appeal standpoint as labeled  )  While I initially did not have any hum with it, it did acquire some at some point prior to it's shelving. I did change the RCA connectors if memory serves due to a partially severed lead to one of the originals. Don't remember how and seems that was when the hum started, so may need to revisit that work & verify it's quality. The source may also have been problems with the Hafler DH110 Pre unit that has since been retired. At the time I suspected a ground problem rather than cart source.

The deck will run to an AVA T-8 phono section, driven by AVA Hafler 220 rebuild. Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated in this restoration project. As well as a fair collection of std store bought albums from the days of yore I haves some 180 gm (I believe it is) Duestche Grammaphone collections purchased via mail 20+ years ago that are begging to be played (Cream, Beatles, Miles Davis). A good friend who is re-creating his vinyl system starting with a new Marantz DD table also has numerous collections from the same source that will be accessible. Once the system is up & running I can consider the project work of assembling a newer deck based on the many recommendations regarding the Technics or Rega units as budget allows.

Thanks -

[GBB]

If you head over to The Analog Dept website, they've got a whole section devoted to Thorens turntables and a further area dedicated to the TD160.  You'll find a wealth of information there.  Here are a few links to get you started:

http://www.theanalogdept.com/thorens_dept_.htm

http://www.theanalogdept.com/thorens_td_160_dept_.htm

http://www.theanalogdept.com/thorens_tweaks.htm

http://www.theanalogdept.com/rktd160ii.htm

[ArthurDent]

GBB -

Thank you very much for the links, I will check them out. 

[Russell Dawkins]

Back in around 1980 I heard a Thorens TD 160 - not sure if it was MkII or not. It remains in my memory as the only time I was made unequivocally aware of arm resonance colorations. That was one bad sounding arm.

At the time I had become acclimatized to a unipivot arm (can't remember the name - Mitchell??) with a Decca London Gold.

[ArthurDent]

Back in around 1980 I heard a Thorens TD 160 - not sure if it was MkII or not. It remains in my memory as the only time I was made unequivocally aware of arm resonance colorations. That was one bad sounding arm.

At the time I had become acclimatized to a unipivot arm (can't remember the name - Mitchell??) with a Decca London Gold.

Thanks for the info Russell, I've done a quick check of the links GBB provided and appears there were mostly cosmetic differences between the Mk I & II, but I do note that my Mk II has a different tonearm from that pictured. Nothing fancy, just all plastic with a slightly different geometry & head shell mount assy. Will put that item on the list for research.

Regards -

[Ferdi]

HI, I have a Thorens TD160MkII as well. Bought it last year at Goodwill.

Things I have done to it:
- replaced the stylus. I am still using a Nagaoka catridge that I should probably replace. The stylus was 9 Euro only....
- replaced the signal leads with some nice microphone wire and neutrik RCA plugs I had lying around. removed any hum or interference.
- replaced the bottom of the base with a 22mm MDF sheet but to size to fit inside the rim of the base. I intend to screw it down but it doesn't seem necessary at the moment.
- put the (above) MDF sheet on 3 speaker spikes with screw-in threads for the right (M8) size.
- replaced 1 hinge that was broken when I got the TT. Lucky me, a guy on ebay was selling parts and had exactly 1 hinge left.
- leveled the TT with the spikes as the surface it sits on isn't quite level.

Still aim to:
- replace the power cord. Not sure what this will do.
- Upgrade the cartridge to??
- oil the turntable bearing
- check stylus weight, VTA etc.
- maybe try the longhorn mod
- maybe plasticlay the insides OR make a new base from real wood.
- maybe build a new phone amp. I am currently using either the phone in of a Marantz 2226B receiver or a Philips 22AH280 pre.

Good luck and would be happy to hear your experiences.

[ArthurDent]

Thanks Ferdi - appreciate the input. Got a number of things on the plate currently, but hope to get started reading all the info linked by GBB shortly. Am sure your noted improvements are cost effective, and will serve to stabilize and isolate vibrations which is a major consideration with any deck.

If I can eliminate the hum, depending on what the actual source ends up being, I'll try to hang with the Grado G1+ for a bit as a start point. From archive threads read it appears to be an at least acceptable cart even today. I'm sure there are much better available now, and once I've made all the minor expense improvements I'll move on to the more expensive considerations as possible. Ideally those that will be transferable to any future table I may choose (or be forced due to uncontrollable addiction) to upgrade to.

It's been stored in house (not in attic or garage), but I'm sure the internal clean & lube, and a new belt are 1st on the list. I'm certain the AVA phono section is top notch for the 2 channel, but will need to pick up an external unit to be able to connect to the computer for transfer to CD/server capability. Am lucky that my noted friend is much more technically inclined, a good and patient tutor, and now has his new system up & running.

It's going to take a while to pull it all together, but will keep you posted on progress. Have a good weekend. Time to get to work.... 

[TheChairGuy]

Arthur,

The Grado G1+ is a good one...if you can rid your system of hum, you'll be good with it for a time (until the upgrade bug strikes...)

The Grado's hum in certain decks because of (inherent) poor shielding of the Grado and humming from AC (and DC, as I've found with direct drive decks) motors 'exciting' its coils.

A full 12" round shield (copper, stainless...I used TI Shield, proprietery stuff that works the best) under your platter mat will likely reduce it to negligible.  However, it will still be there.  Squirting the internal Grado coils with a drop each side of 1000cst silicone oil with damp the microphonic coils down a bit).  Further, constrained layer damping bits on the motor itself and as much Plast-i-Clay as the TD-160 will hold will help further (you are damping the sympathetic-to-AC-motor-hum surfaces down so less is reflected towards the sensitive Grado) 

Grado's are among the most frustrating animal of cartridge in existence...they take far more time to coalesce with most decks than others....but I've not heard any more natural and capable of re-creating live sound as yet.  So, I take the tiem to get them right....but, I understand fully others frustration in throwing up their hands and moving onward 

John 

[ArthurDent]

Thank You John,

As with any hobby - audio, cars, golf, whatever, it's a journey involving patience and practice. Usually a fair amount of green as well. Appreciate the counseling/advice. Am getting a good work list compiled. Now to create time ? 

Are you still in need of the G1+ specs, or were you able to track them down since that post (as I'd suspect) ? If still wanted I can post.

Thanks again to all ....

[TheChairGuy]

Hi Arthur - gr8 topic post, btw, you have a flair for writing.  Perhaps you can supplement your stream of green running into your home with some paid writing sometime (from somewhere).  Then again, it would further crimp your time (dratz!)

Thanks on the specs, but I have the current Prestige and old F-series...so the G can 't be much different.  Thanks very much for the offer, tho 

Yeah, the Grado's really are the most pricklish of cartridges.  Joe Grado, and his nephew John who carries on his vision, believed overdamping (which in comparison almost all cartridges are next to Grado) indiscriminately damp out the music itself, as well.  They purposely run them underdamped, relative to others, so they are always borderline problematic for many users.  Cartridges are so sensitive that most other makers 'damp' them (coils, cantilver, etc) so that excess energy is stamped up before they can be amplified...whereas Grado finds much of the music damped out as well.

I think their attitude is that the problem isn't with the Grado - it's with your equipment.  Kinda' snotty attitude for sure...but one that I have found bears out in actuality as the Grado's sound more natural than any other cartridge I've heard.  To me, they are worth the bother...but I understand folks frustration with them.

EMI shielding is part of the problem, too, as the cartridge is run unshielded (tho others do, too).  The electrical interaction of shielding Grado feels screws up the sonics.  Much the same, I find unshielded interconnects (and power cables) to sound the best - but, the higher noise because of it is often the overweighing factor.  So, you end up using shielded IC's most often...even tho unshielded sounds tends to better.

In a cartridge body with 125' of coil that acts like a mighty sensitive antenna...and an unshielded either motor or cartridge body....you're bound to hear noise.

I have wondered, and I want to act upon it one day, if the wood bodied Grados of today (where the coils are potted into the natural damping of Jarrah wood) are less prone to hum than the higher output versions (in plastic bodies).  6' versus 125' of coil would indicate they are less-capable conductors for electromagnetic and radio interference...and the woo bodies may provide the gentle damping the internals of the Grados often need.

Does anybody know this?

Many of the same problems Grado users have with hum are experienced with London Decca users...only we hear less  about this as the London Decca's start at something like $600+ (and there are less buyers for them).  Like the Grado's, the London Deccas are run without significant damping, are hi-output (with hundreds of feet of coils to act as antenna) and are unshielded.   

Ciao, John