new DAC sought-no phase inversion please

lcrim · « **on:** 24 Jul 2008, 12:06 am »

Need some help. I have 2 Bolder modded Squeezeboxes w/ good power supplies. The Bolder mods were done only to the digital output. In both of my systems I also have a vinyl frontend. It would be a pita to swap speaker leads every time I listen to the SB so I skipped the analog mods (which inverts phase) and have an outboard DAC. Those are in need of updating. I don't want to introduce a DAC that inverts absolute phase and there are reports online of terrific sounding newer DAC's particularly NOS DAC's but I don't know if they are phase inverting. I'm looking for a recommedation for a DAC that is cost sensitive yet sounds terrific, NOS and doesn't invert phase. There is no value in having a USB input as I no longer use the USB output only SqueezeCenter and WiFI. Used is very good.
Thanks in advance.

mcullinan · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Jul 2008, 01:01 am »

Lavry DA-1- DAC is NOS and sounds very good... organic.
It can be found used.
Mike

lcrim · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Jul 2008, 04:10 am »

Mike:
Thanks for the rec but did you mean the Lavry D10? The D10 has only balanced outputs and my system is single ended.

JoshK · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Jul 2008, 04:16 am »

I see you are using a switchbox to change sources. You could install a pair of Jensen transformers and a switch and be able to change phase back and forth as you please. The Jensens might also yield some benefits due to galvanic isolation (ground loop killer, even if you don't hear one).

lcrim · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Jul 2008, 05:20 am »

Josh:
I don't quite know how to set that up but its a good idea for any system to have a phase switch. There is a phase switch on the DAC in the bedroom and certain music sounds better out of phase. Do you have an idea how to set that up? Parts numbers etc?

lcrim · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Jul 2008, 02:47 pm »

I'm still looking for a NOS DAC that doesn't invert phase, price is a big consideration. Again, USB connection is not necessary.

mcullinan · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Jul 2008, 02:57 pm »

There is an internal switch in the Lavry to make it single ended, then you need to buy balanced to single ended Hosa connectors.
It worked great for me.
Mike

pardales · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Jul 2008, 02:58 pm »

I am really enjoying Peter Daniel's (Audiosector) NOS DAC. SPDIF version is around $300. You could write to him and ask if his DAC inverts phase -- sorry, but I do not know. You can send him a message through his website.

http://www.audiosector.com/contact.asp

woodsyi · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Jul 2008, 03:01 pm »

Larry,

What if you reversed your phono output? You would be reversed but on the same phase with your DAC. Then you flip your speaker cables and you would be unreversed together. No?

CSI · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Jul 2008, 03:57 pm »

Don't know where your price cut-off is but both the CIA VDA.2 and TADAC DACS allow you to invert phase with front panel switches. They are both NOS and both sound terrific - the CIA being perhaps the more accurate with the TADAC being very "analog" (it has a tube output stage and even a "tubyness" control). You'll find reviews and discussions here on AC.

richidoo · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Jul 2008, 04:25 pm »

A basic Altmann Attraction can be had used for <$1000. It is extended, authoritative, very detailed and tonally accurate. Extremely enjoyable DAC even as pure stock. Hi res options add to the price, you don't need them for playing CDs, the basic version sounds awesome. New is probably ~$1200

lcrim · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Jul 2008, 04:33 pm »

Rim:
I don't think that reversing the outputs from or to the phono section would do anything to absolute phase. It would only change channels. What was on the right channel would now be on the left and vice versa. Phase is about whether the speaker is pushing air out in reaction to the signal or being pulled back. An out of phase condition occurs when the speaker reacts oppositely to the signal. Many people can't hear the difference, it can be subtle. In my system w/ fairly high efficiency single driver speakers and a relatively low output amp, the Glow Audio Amp One, phase issues are apparent and somewhat annoying. Changing the speaker cables from + to - eventually loosens the banana plugs I favor plus is another thing to do to change sources. I'd like to avoid this if possible.
Wayne is loaning me a Monica, which is reportedly very easy to listen to in terms of etch or glare. It's very reasonably priced from DIY Paradise. It also has a lowered ouput level, a bit less than a volt and it inverts phase but its a different sound and perhaps makes changing speaker leads worthwhile.

woodsyi · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 Jul 2008, 06:07 pm »

Goes to tell you how little I know.

I was thinking polarity.

Good luck in your search.

scottnixon · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 Jul 2008, 06:37 pm »

Larry, if you're referencing the dacs I made, you bought those in 2005 and they should both be normal phase. They may be long in the tooth and need some to be checked and freshened up, but unless they were re-furb units from before April 2004 they are normal phase.

mgalusha · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Jul 2008, 06:43 pm »

You can reverse the leads at the phono cartridge, this will change the absolute phase.

Quote from: lcrim on 24 Jul 2008, 04:33 pm

Rim:
I don't think that reversing the outputs from or to the phono section would do anything to absolute phase. It would only change channels. What was on the right channel would now be on the left and vice versa. Phase is about whether the speaker is pushing air out in reaction to the signal or being pulled back. An out of phase condition occurs when the speaker reacts oppositely to the signal. Many people can't hear the difference, it can be subtle. In my system w/ fairly high efficiency single driver speakers and a relatively low output amp, the Glow Audio Amp One, phase issues are apparent and somewhat annoying. Changing the speaker cables from + to - eventually loosens the banana plugs I favor plus is another thing to do to change sources. I'd like to avoid this if possible.
Wayne is loaning me a Monica, which is reportedly very easy to listen to in terms of etch or glare. It's very reasonably priced from DIY Paradise. It also has a lowered ouput level, a bit less than a volt and it inverts phase but its a different sound and perhaps makes changing speaker leads worthwhile.

lcrim · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Jul 2008, 07:03 pm »

Scott:
I am not having out of phase problems w/ either DAC I got from you back in 2005. If I were to replace them, I want to avoid phase problems. Sorry, if anyone got that idea.

Thanks Mike Galusha for the insight re: cartridge leads. That never occurred to me.

JoshK · « **Reply #16 on:** 25 Jul 2008, 04:40 pm »

Larry,

To follow up on my previous suggestion. Here is where you can get them. You'd need to know how to wire them into your switch box with a switch, or have someone do it for you but it is really simple and straightforward.

Josh

jhm731 · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 Jul 2008, 05:24 pm »

Here's one with a phase switch

http://www.berkeleyaudiodesign.com/products.html

arthurs · « **Reply #18 on:** 25 Jul 2008, 06:22 pm »

Man, I'd love to get the Berkeley in for a test drive in my system.....

face · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 Jul 2008, 05:06 am »

Camelot's Arthur DAC has a switch that allows you to switch the phase.