[cloudbaseracer]

Hello fellow AudioCirclers,

I am renovating a church built in 1886 and converting it into my home. It is a really neat project with solid limestone walls (2 feet thick) on the lower level and solid brick walls (15" thick) on the main floor.  I am at the stage where I need to install outlets and given the brick walls I do not want to run conduit but instead install the outlets in the hardwood floor. 

My question for you guys is what "special" outlets should I use?  I have heard rumblings about cryo pieces but do not know any specifics outlets I should use.  Do I just use standard electrical wire which will be used in the rest of the house or do I need to run a high tech wire to carry the current to my listening section of the home.  Of course there is nothing special about my power supply into the panel nor the panel itself.

Can anyone point me in the right direction? What is worth the money and what is not noticeable?  Please provide an average price for any items suggested.

Thank You,

James

[zmanbands]

Alan Maher is on vacation till 7/24 but he is expert in this area and many others. He won't be selling the stuff he recommends so no conflict there. An industrial grade Leviton outlet at $15 each would benefit in your entire house. I'll get the # for you later. Alans Web link. Send him an email. He is a great helper!   http://alanmaherdesigns.com/default.aspx

[zmanbands]

HBL 5262. Link for outlet purchase.  http://www.onestopbuy.com/5262-8102.asp

[jermmd]

It might be worth putting in a dedicated 20 amp circuit if you think you might be using a powerful amplifier and if you know where your system will be located.

Congrats on the new place. An old church sounds really cool. It reminds me of the character from Trevanian novels, Jonathan Hemlock.

[zmanbands]

BTW, If you contact Alan Maher, I suspect he may recomend a wire to rewire with.

[KS]

James,

Are you familiar with the scheme of home wiring?  Two hot legs, a neutral leg, and the safety ground.  Wiring across the two hot legs gives you 240 volts.  Wiring across one hot leg and neutral gives 120 volts.  The neutral and ground are bonded together at two places, and two places only...in your service panel and at the distribution transformer feeding your house.  The two legs come down bus bars inside your service panel with lugs that go alternately to each circuit breaker.  This is easily seen on an open demo panel in any store that sells the panels.

I'd set up the circuits so anything that might put electrical noise into the circuit is on one leg and your audio system is on the other leg, along with circuits that likely don't put noise into the circuit most times.  Your refrigerator, fluorescent lights, and other things that could be noisy are examples.  You want the load on the two legs of the circuit to be approximately balanced, so you can't load everything on one leg and your audio system by itself on the other.

I'd also install a whole-house surge suppressor in the panel.  If you're in a region that gets lightning, your electrician will know about the most effective lightning arrestors.

Any power wire and any wire run inside walls must meet the appropriate safety spec.  You could buy cryogenically treated Romex power cable ( the usual kind pulled inside walls or under floors without conduit) or have a suitable length of #12/2 Romex or #12 THHN ( the wire for use inside conduit) cryo treated at a local facility.  But, I'm not sure it does any good, and might be a waste of money.

Do use either a 20 amp receptacle (with one slot that looks like a sideways T) or a hospital grade receptacle.  These will clamp the blades on your plugs more tightly.

A couple of cryo sources:
http://www.cryo-parts.com/index.html
http://vhaudio.com/wire.html#bulkacwire  (Only VH offers cryo'ed Romex, although Cryo-Parts can cryo just about anything.)

[Occam]

HBL 5262. Link for outlet purchase.  http://www.onestopbuy.com/5262-8102.asp

Zman - if by HBL 5262 you meant the Hubbell version, one might look here -
http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=10366
or for the 20amp version -
http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=10367
at $12 & $14 respectively, both available in brown, black and ivory.

Of all the available 5262 'all brass' versions, my favorite is the HBL5262/5362.
My subjective rankings would be HBL5262. P&S5262A, with Cooper/Eagle and Leviton tied for last.
YMMV

[zmanbands]

Occam. The reason I mentioned Leviton 5262 was it had all better sounding brass where you need it ie the yoke, screws etc. Do the preferred ones you mentioned have that. I have not listened to any of them yet. I assume you have in which case I would yield to better info. Note: if you put any 20 amp outlet in it needs 12 gauge wire and a 20 amp breaker in the panel.

[cloudbaseracer]

Thanks guys for the info.  I will check some of this stuff out.  The "house" had no wiring so everything is being "re-wired".  That makes at least some part of this project easier. 

I searched the forum but did not see how to add an image here to my post.  I see the icon to add it but it doesn't seem to work.  I would like to post a picture of the project, so if some one can point me to the proper way to insert an image I would appreciate it.


James

[lonewolfny42]

I searched the forum but did not see how to add an image here to my post.  I see the icon to add it but it doesn't seem to work.  I would like to post a picture of the project, so if some one can point me to the proper way to insert an image I would appreciate it.


James

Try this...... http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=40968.0

[Occam]

Zman,

Sorry for the delayed response. Yes, I've listened to all of those specific all brass 5262 outlets (save for bronze screws and I use brass screws to mount the outlets), as well as the various compact hospital outlets of all brass construction. I should be embarrassed to admit it . My subjective opinions are just that, and I wouldn't doubt that someone else, with different components and metrics might prefer the P&S 5262A or the non nickel plated hospital receptacles which, to me, have less warmth and extension. Others might prefer the subjectively punchier mid/upper bass of the later outlets.
I've no doubt that these outlets certainly wouldn't measure any differently when powering components. Go figure.....
As you use Alan Maher's products, I believe the HBL5262 is also his preferred? outlet.

FWIW,
Paul

[JLM]

Whole house surge protector - did it, big YES (so many appliances and electronics, big and small, that need protection)

Dedicated audio curcuit(s) - did it, big YES (did three, one per receptacle, certainly a luxury for my small/simple audio system)

Cryo'd hospital grade 20 amp duplex convenience receptacles - did it, big YES (the only part of all this that we paid, $100 from cryoparts for Hubbells, for as it was bid lump sum)

Wired a separate ground to connect all audio circuits together - did it, big YES

Wire the entire house with 12 gauge wire and 20 amp breakers - did it, big YES (some new appliances, like our washing machine come to find out, requires a 20 amp receptacle/circuit)

Underground feed with your own transformer - did it, big YES

Wire in a plug in and at the panel for portable generator - did it, yes

Wire the audio circuit(s) to the top of the panel - missed that one, but some recommend it

All this said, IME "clean" power, properly termed a lack of abberations, is location specific.  Age/condition of wiring, substation, even power plant are all contributing factors.  Number/age of industrial and other heavy users can easily be heard.  Thankfully I've not had many of these factors where we live, and now am in good shape on these counts.

Most of all the posted advice is in the "while you're at it" category.  And it you're situation, a little forethought can pay mighty dividends.

[cloudbaseracer]

This is the condition when I bought the place.

And after spending 5 weeks cleaning paint off of ceiling:



Living Room



Kitchen



James

[Double Ugly]

This is the condition when I bought the place.

Brilliant, James. 

Though I know it has and will continue to require a lot of time, effort and money to complete the renovation, I think you've found a place you will treasure.  Well done. 

[cloudbaseracer]

Double Ugly,

Thanks for the good words.  I am looking forward to completing this project. 

Now I am trying to decide if I should run speaker cable to each room so the I can do "distributed" audio/video from one central location.  I had not really considered it until recently.  Before I had just planned on using a Squeezebox Duet with individual power in the rooms I wanted to listen to music in.  It is just one more thing I have to research and decide the best way to implement.

James

[ctviggen]

Wired a separate ground to connect all audio circuits together - did it, big YES

What do you mean by this?  If what you mean is that you added another ground to circuits already having a ground, this is likely against the National Electrical Code.  Not only that, but you've set yourself up for a ground loop.  If what you mean is that you added a separate earth ground, then if you didn't connect that to the other earth ground, again you've violated the NEC and have set yourself up for a ground loop.  If you mean something else, please let us know what you mean.

[Wayner]

If you are going to put outlets in the floor, they must be outlets design for such use and a standard wall outlet and box with a plastic cover will not meet NEC code. Because the outlets are on the floor, they must be of this type: http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/RACO_datasheet.asp?PN=6224&FAM=RacoBoxes

Wayner