Low level vs High SPL listening

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Mag

Low level vs High SPL listening
« on: 19 Jul 2008, 02:36 pm »
As I get older I find that I'm mellowing out and I don't need to crank the volume everytime. On my receiver/pre-amp depending on the recording, there doesn't seem to be a significant difference between 20 and 5 on the volume indicator, 5 only being louder. The music remains clear, detailed and tonal aspects stay consistent.
Last week I was playing a comp. disc from a friend. At low volume it was palatable. At high volume it was just horrible due to how it was mixed. I compare it to listening to the radio on the Bose car stereo.  This led me to think that perhaps many audiophiles listen at relatively low volume with the false impression that there system is hi-fi because the music sounds pleasant at low level. When cranked however artificial bass, distortions etc. manifest resulting in an unpleasant fatiguing sound.
The true test of a system is, can it play loud and still remain pleasant to listen to.
On the other hand some music for me is only satisfying when played loud, like 100 db C weighted. In-a-godda-da-vida is a good example, when cranked I can hear every nuances of the drum skins which gives me a high. Not only that the tonal aspects become 'live like' resulting in very accurate concert simulation.
IMO people who say that home audio fails when compared to the real thing. Probably have their belief based on low level listening. However on high-fi systems with spl levels fairly evenly matched, and hi-resolution recording the simulation can be very real.

Thoughts?

BrianM

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Re: Low level vs High SPL listening
« Reply #1 on: 19 Jul 2008, 06:11 pm »
I think a speaker's ability to disappear is a big part of the equation, i.e. whether it can do a vanishing act and recreate the venue (ambient space, placement, detail) without having to crank it.  To me things sound more immediate when they don't sound like they're coming directly from the speaker cones, but of course there's a minimum SPL level required to achieve any sense of realism.  If you're having to turn the volume up fairly loud for every recording it could mean something in your chain isn't pulling its weight.

JLM

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Re: Low level vs High SPL listening
« Reply #2 on: 19 Jul 2008, 06:32 pm »
I’ve often used the term “threshold of annoyance” where any number of factors lead to a variety of distortions, where it is just “too damn loud”.  Up to that threshold, it should all sound better.  Yes, some systems can play louder without distortion and that is a good thing, especially in that they can handle a higher dynamic range of musical material.

There are many attributes that contribute to good sound.  Lack of dynamic compression is only one of them.  How well the recording is mixed evokes several more.

IMO the only audiophile gold standard is live, unamplified music.  No audio system has been mistaken for that in a side by side comparison (so why do we keep trying so hard?)  As soon as you compare your system to a PA system in a bar, arena, stadium, etc. you’re only comparing your system (and your room) to theirs.

richidoo

Re: Low level vs High SPL listening
« Reply #3 on: 19 Jul 2008, 08:59 pm »
The true test of a system is, can it play loud and still remain pleasant to listen to.

"System" includes the acoustics of the listening room and may be the largest part of the problem of harshness increasing with volume levels, assuming the amp is not stressed.  Reflections off a sheetrock wall are not a perfect match of the original sound. They are colored by the resonances of the reflecting surfaces. The closer the resonant vibration of the reflecting surface matches the frequency of the music the more coloration is added to the reflected sound - just like speaker cabinets. It is the "one-note-bass" phenomenon, but it can happen at any audible frequency depdning on the reflecting material and the vibrating span.

The perception of distortion increases as the volume increases because the distorted reflections come from every direction while the clean direct sound comes from only one direction. Corners and especially tri-corners dstort sound even more than flat walls because multiple reflections are created at the same time, out of phase with each other. Corners also act as horns to amplify the distorted reflections as they exit the corner.

Because sound attenuates exponentially, putting the ears and speakers as far away from reflective surfaces reduces distortion at a given volume setting. But perceived distortion rises exponentially with volume in an untreated room acoustic as everyone has observed, so turning it down really does make it sound better, not just quieter.

But music needs SPL to deliever the intended feeling, and there is a range of volume levels that work well for every piece and every acoustic, and it can vary from recording to recording, even track to track with the mood of the recording and the listener, making a remote volume control a critically important tool. A display of volume level is also important, with sufficiently high resolution to show small changes. A mastering engineer should adjust the levels of a CD so that the listener doesn't have to adjust inside of a CD, but that level of detail is not typical, especially on tracks intended for pop audience or radio, where max SPL means everything, and subtlety means nothing. If a listener likes a tune he may get more juice by cranking it up, so the right level is different for each song and listener. Tweaking the volume by 1dB can make a big difference to the overall enjoyment. A well treated acoustic allows that same level of enjoyment over a broader range of volume settings because it is quieter, to allow hearing well at lower levels, and because it controls reflections to allow lower distortion at higher levels. Full range speakers with excellent coupling at bass frequencies (large drivers) will allow satisfying listening at lower volume settings.

Whereas some materials like glass, metal, gyp-board, etc are not complimentary in their colorations, some materials like spruce and maple do actually sound good, which is why they are used to make vibrating surfaces in musical instruments. A listening room made of materials like this may have equal or even greater THD than a sheetrock and glass room, but character of the distortion is more pleasant or more "musical." Some ideas fwiw...
Rich

nathanm

Re: Low level vs High SPL listening
« Reply #4 on: 19 Jul 2008, 09:42 pm »
Distortion and compressed dynamics seems to be the thing our ears are objecting to, not just sound pressures.  Spikes and combs good, 2x4s BAD.