Pentax K20D - any opinions?

Russell Dawkins · « **on:** 12 Jul 2008, 08:29 am »

I am contemplating buying a DSLR and would like to spend less than $1500. I am completely new to good cameras, having owned only simple (but good) point and shoots 'till now - a Minox 35 GT and my current Fuji F31fd.

I have spent some time in the last few months trying to get up to speed on the mid price camera market.

Over the years, on a few occasions where a photograph has really caught my attention for details such as extreme flesh tone accuracy, the lens has been a Pentax. I don't know whether Pentax lenses are as good as they used to be, or even where they stand currently in comparison to the rest of the market, but that is my bias.

I have seen and handled the current crop of DSLRs by Canon, Nikon and Pentax and I still like the look and feel of the Pentax. It seems to fit my hand better, and I just like the shape. I know this is pretty lame, but I willingly admit that I expect part of the pleasure of owning a good camera for me will be just the handling of it.

So, the question is - am I missing something in coming to the conclusion that the K20D is a really good value? I like the idea that any old Pentax lens will work on it, too.

I was thinking of sticking with the 18-55mm kit lens (or, even better, a Sigma 17-70) until I know more about appropriate lens options. I think I like the idea of a decent wide range zoom covering about 18 - 200mm so I can reduce the complexity for day to day use.

The more I compare, the cheaper the K20D looks.

The Sigma DP1 is kind of intriguing, too!

Thanks,

Russell

denjo · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Jul 2008, 08:52 am »

Hi Russell

DPreview has just done an in-depth review of this camera:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxk20d/

Best Regards
Dennis

goldlizsts · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Jul 2008, 12:30 pm »

Quote from: Russell Dawkins on 12 Jul 2008, 08:29 am

I am contemplating buying a DSLR and would like to spend less than $1500.............

I have been researching too, for sub-$1000 DSLRs, as I thought I'm only a bit serious than a point-and-shooter tho I've been using a SLR camera for 20+ years (Minolta, Nikon, Contax, Leica....); I don't need all the bells and whistles of an exotic $4,000 "professional" body-only DSLR. Its seems to point me toward Olympus E-520 being the best deal. I also looked for a Sony when they came out with the Alpha 700 (didn't buy it because didn't think I'd need to spend that $1,500 perhaps, but I just love Zeiss lenses, which can be costly). Whether the below-$1,500 DSLRs are considered cheap or not depends on how you valuate them. For those occasional shooting occasions, I would think the Pentax would foot the bill and do the job well. Perhaps, don't let your ego drive you to buying a $3,000 body only DSLR if it's just a hobby. Good luck!

lazydays · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Jul 2008, 07:48 pm »

Quote from: Russell Dawkins on 12 Jul 2008, 08:29 am

I am contemplating buying a DSLR and would like to spend less than $1500. I am completely new to good cameras, having owned only simple (but good) point and shoots 'till now - a Minox 35 GT and my current Fuji F31fd.

I have spent some time in the last few months trying to get up to speed on the mid price camera market.

Over the years, on a few occasions where a photograph has really caught my attention for details such as extreme flesh tone accuracy, the lens has been a Pentax. I don't know whether Pentax lenses are as good as they used to be, or even where they stand currently in comparison to the rest of the market, but that is my bias.

I have seen and handled the current crop of DSLRs by Canon, Nikon and Pentax and I still like the look and feel of the Pentax. It seems to fit my hand better, and I just like the shape. I know this is pretty lame, but I willingly admit that I expect part of the pleasure of owning a good camera for me will be just the handling of it.

So, the question is - am I missing something in coming to the conclusion that the K20D is a really good value? I like the idea that any old Pentax lens will work on it, too.

I was thinking of sticking with the 18-55mm kit lens (or, even better, a Sigma 17-70) until I know more about appropriate lens options. I think I like the idea of a decent wide range zoom covering about 18 - 200mm so I can reduce the complexity for day to day use.

The more I compare, the cheaper the K20D looks.

The Sigma DP1 is kind of intriguing, too!

Thanks,

Russell

I got to shoot about forty pics thru one a few weeks back, and the only reason I don't own one is that I have quite a few Nikon mount lenses in my bag right now. It's a superb camera in everyway, and in a few was superior. Compaired to a standard Nikon D300, it is no contest. It does everything better. But when you add the $300 power grip to the Nikon it takes on a new life. With the power grip the Nikon does burst photography faster and maybe a touch better. (but we're also looking at a $2200 body). I ended up with a Fuji S5Pro, and this camera is somewhere between the Nikon with the power grip and the Pentax for about $500 less than the Nikon. The Fuji takes better color than either one of the others, and that's why I bought it. Another camera to look at is the Samsung. They use the Pentax body and Schnider lenses (best there is), and all Pentax lenses will work on it. The better Olympus cameras a pretty nice as well, and if for no other reason than the tilt LCD screen makes it a super camera.
I shoot a lot of black & white pics, and that's the main reason I own the S5 (and an S3). They do B&W right. Their sensor is their own design, and is the best period for colors. Don't get caught up in the gazillion megapixle game! It's the sensor your after. The Nikon DX series are full frame sensors as well as some of the Canons. The Fujis are about 3/4 the size, and they get smaller from there on. It's worth your while to try and get the biggest sensor you can afford, but when you are looking at the better SLRs there really isn't all that much difference in them (other than how they read color).
gary

SET Man · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Jul 2008, 11:38 pm »

Quote from: Russell Dawkins on 12 Jul 2008, 08:29 am

.... I like the idea that any old Pentax lens will work on it, too.

I was thinking of sticking with the 18-55mm kit lens (or, even better, a Sigma 17-70) until I know more about appropriate lens options. I think I like the idea of a decent wide range zoom covering about 18 - 200mm so I can reduce the complexity for day to day use.

.....

Hey!

Well, if I have to weight in on this. I would say if you already have some good old Pentax lenses laying around and don't feel the need of AF that new lenses provide than there is no reason not to get Pentax DLSR.

My boss' long time friend have Pentax DSLR that he use with his old Pentax lenses and he is happy with it... actually the only AF lens he have for his DLSR is the kit lens.

On the other hand. If you are looking to start from scratch than you have to consider other things too.

Are you planing to build a system over long term? If so choose the system that have all the lenses and accessories you need.

But if you are only going to just stick with the kit lens than you could buy whatever you feel is best at the moment and sell it later when you want something new in the future.

All current DSLRs at that price point today are all very capable and the newer one are with some improvements.... how well really depend on the person behind it

Choosing first DSLR is not easy so take your time

Take care,
Buddy

SET Man · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Jul 2008, 12:03 am »

Quote from: goldlizsts on 12 Jul 2008, 12:30 pm

.... Its seems to point me toward Olympus E-520 being the best deal. ....

Hey!

Shek/goldlizsts, I have to admit that there is something that I don't feel good about Olympus current DSLR system.

Maybe is just me. But the fact that Olympus DSLR system is based on a smaller 4/3 (Forth-third) sensor while other companies are now moving toward full-frame sensor.

I'm not saying is bad. No, some current Olympus DSLRs are very good and very small. And of course MP is not everything but there is only so much MP that could be squeezed on the small sensor. So, I think it will be hard for Olympus to improve the MP part of the sensor with their smaller sized sensor.

I was surprised when Olympus anouced that they chose the 4/3 system. Since they will have to start from scratch for their AF DLSR line I think it would be better for them to come up with a larger sensor like other companies with the lens mouth the could except the old MF Olympus SLR lenses.

Anyway, that is just me.

Quote from: goldlizsts on 12 Jul 2008, 12:30 pm

.... Perhaps, don't let your ego drive you to buying a $3,000 body only DSLR if it's just a hobby. Good luck!

Well, why not? Some people even just for a hobby like to have expensive DSLR to satisfy their ego drive.

Take care,
Buddy

goldlizsts · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Jul 2008, 12:56 am »

Hi Buddy,

Most of them are heading toward full frame. May be Olympus chose the four third system becasue it's cheaper. I was praising the E-520 simply because it seemed to me that of all the sub-pro (say less than $1,500) DSLRs, the Olympus seemed to come out best in optic performance. They all have flaws in different departments, so it's a preference thing. Of course, nothing's wrong for a person who's been used to just point and shoot all his life to hop onto an exotic $4K DSLR to begin with. It may improve his picture-taking tremendously (being forced to crash-learn).

I haven't bought my 1st DSLR yet, so I have all the options. I may get a full-frame cheapie DSLR yet.

Take care!

Shek

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Jul 2008, 01:20 am »

Thanks for the useful responses. It seems that some feel the Samsung GX 20 outperforms the Pentax in the quality of the jpeg output, the design of the menus and buttons/controls. Also, on Amazon, the Samsung is distinctly more expensive than the Pentax. This is an unusual situation, seems to me, in that the name Pentax is held in more respect than Samsung, yet it seems if you are able to be impartial, the Samsung takes the cake. At the same price and with the same performance I would not hesitate for a second to take the Pentax over the Samsung, if only for re-sale considerations.

The Sigma DP 1 is an interesting dark horse, too, and I have heard of some types embracing it with all its very serious design limitations just for that detailed image - and, presumably, no-nonsense Leica-like design. After all, it is only $300 less than the Pentax K20D around here (Victoria, BC, western Canada).

SET Man · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Jul 2008, 01:48 am »

Hey!

Russell, picture quality aside you are comparing two very different cameras here...

Sigma DP1 = fixed lens, simpler and compactness.

Pentax/Samsung DSLR = larger, more versatile and with expandable system.

As for Samsung and Pentax... they are basically the same with same sensor. I'm not sure if there is much different between the two.

Take care,
Buddy

JohnR · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Jul 2008, 02:09 am »

Quote from: lazydays on 12 Jul 2008, 07:48 pm

The Nikon DX series are full frame sensors as well as some of the Canons.

Just to clarify - Nikon DX are APS-sized sensors i.e. you have a 1.5 crop factor (D40/60/80/300). The Nikon full-frame sensors are called FX (D700/D3).

JohnR

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 Jul 2008, 06:45 am »

Having a camera ready to take a shot is better than having a technically superior camera that had the wrong settings and you couldn't change them in time. See which one feels most natural for you to use. If you're going to use a slr, part of the fun is getting to know how all the different features can help you get a better picture. Learn when to use them and how to access them quickly. Don't use your slr like a point and shoot, like I do.

If you already know you like the way the pentax does skin tones, see if you can check out the interface at a store. Study the controls from an online manual beforehand, and then go and change them around on the real body, see if it feels intuitive to you.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Jul 2008, 07:58 am »

I am well aware that the Sigma DP 1 is almost absurdly different from the low end DSLR - on the face of it.

Compared to even the Pentax K20D the main functional difference from my perspective is the lack of zoom and the opportunity to play with different lenses. The biggest issue for me is the lack of any zoom whatsoever.

Vastly reduced bulk would be a huge advantage - I don't look forward to dragging around a large heavy camera bag.

I do like the small size and the visual design simplicity and lack of pretense. I guess I am a Bauhausian at heart.

As to image quality, just yesterday I saw a comparison between the same outdoor scene taken by the Sigma DP1, a Canon EOS 40D (I think) and a Leica D-LUX 3. (I just spent 20 minutes trying to find this and can't.)

Anyway, the DP1 was basically much like the Canon and the Leica was hopelessly outclassed - flat and un-dynamic by comparison. I know this is hardly definitive, but it is basically what I would have expected - that the pay off for the lack of versatility would be great inherent image quality.

Now, if the Leica D-LUX came with the Foveon sensor aa

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Jul 2008, 08:06 am »

It's also somewhat relevant to keep in mind that if you are serious about your photography, you will most likely be touching them up in post processing, much like darkroom work used to be a critical part of the film process - in which case, relatively minor differences in image quality can often become negligible. It's much more important to be able to get the shot you want when you want it.

IMO, there is a very small range of light that a camera can optimally capture. If you aren't dedicated to creating that situation or waiting around for that situation to occur, chances are your shots will benefit from post processing.

Imperial · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 Jul 2008, 06:06 pm »

Samsung GX20 vs Pentax K20 D by WDC. (online-review_Vid)
Informative to say the least.

Imperial

lazydays · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 Jul 2008, 06:11 pm »

Quote from: Russell Dawkins on 13 Jul 2008, 01:20 am

Thanks for the useful responses. It seems that some feel the Samsung GX 20 outperforms the Pentax in the quality of the jpeg output, the design of the menus and buttons/controls. Also, on Amazon, the Samsung is distinctly more expensive than the Pentax. This is an unusual situation, seems to me, in that the name Pentax is held in more respect than Samsung, yet it seems if you are able to be impartial, the Samsung takes the cake. At the same price and with the same performance I would not hesitate for a second to take the Pentax over the Samsung, if only for re-sale considerations.

The Sigma DP 1 is an interesting dark horse, too, and I have heard of some types embracing it with all its very serious design limitations just for that detailed image - and, presumably, no-nonsense Leica-like design. After all, it is only $300 less than the Pentax K20D around here (Victoria, BC, western Canada).

I don't remember why, but the 4/3 format has a couple advantages that the others don't do. Maybe with the way the photo is cropped.
The Samsung and the K20D are the same basic camera, but the Samsung has better glass in it. The bodies are both built on the same frame. I've never used the samsung, but do know a little about the Pentax.
gary

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 Jul 2008, 12:19 am »

Quote from: SET Man on 12 Jul 2008, 11:38 pm

I would say if you already have some good old Pentax lenses laying around and don't feel the need of AF that new lenses provide than there is no reason not to get Pentax DLSR. My boss' long time friend have Pentax DSLR that he use with his old Pentax lenses and he is happy with it... actually the only AF lens he have for his DLSR is the kit lens.

Thanks for the tips, Buddy.

My (limited?) understanding is that one of the advantages of the Pentax is that the AF motor is in the body and so it will operate older lenses. It is the Nikon D40 and such that has the AF motor in the lens, requiring manual focusing with older lenses.

By the way there are some interesting photographic comaprisons for the Sigma DP1 on this site:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sigma-dp1.shtml

and I have just discovered this site:

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/digital_camera_and_lens_reviews.shtml

which has some very informative and even handed reviews.

SET Man · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 Jul 2008, 02:11 am »

Hey!

You're welcome Russell.

Yes, any Pentax K-mount should work on their new DSLRs. Of course the AF function on the new DSLR won't work when using older Pentax MF (manual focus) lenses. And meter functions will be limited with MF lenses on the new DSLR also.

Only Pentax and Nikon DSLRs are backward compatible with older MF lenses. Perfect for those with old MF lens. But for most people this won't matter much.

As for the Nikon D40. I don't know why Nikon made this camera without the the AF motor in the body. Other Nikon DSLRs have AF motor in the body. I guess they try to save money on the D40 and this will forced the owner of D40 to buy the lens with motor in it. All those nice AF lenses before the D40 are than become MF lenses on it. A dead end camera to me, not something that you would want to have if you are planing to build a Nikon system.

As for the Sigma. If you feel that you really like the Sigma's Foveon sensor. Than there is the Sigma DSLR

Although I don't know anyone who use this.

But keep in mind there is more to it beyond the camera, lenses, and reviews. So, choose what feel best to you

Take care,
Buddy

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Jul 2008, 02:25 am »

Is the d40 really in the same category as these other cameras? I got my d40 body for $275 used. It's served me well, and I don't feel any urge to upgrade until some super camera comes out that is affordable at the same time. While it can only af with newer lenses, it can mount plenty of old manual focus lenses, and with digital, not having a meter isn't that big a deal. I thought those other cameras were many times more expensive.

SET Man · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 Jul 2008, 02:39 am »

Quote from: ooheadsoo on 14 Jul 2008, 02:25 am

Is the d40 really in the same category as these other cameras? I got my d40 body for $275 used. It's served me well, and I don't feel any urge to upgrade until some super camera comes out that is affordable at the same time. While it can only af with newer lenses, it can mount plenty of old manual focus lenses, and with digital, not having a meter isn't that big a deal. I thought those other cameras were many times more expensive.

Hey!

No it is not in the same level. Since he mentioned the D40 and it's AF system that is why I wrote about it.

Of course it will work with the MF Nikon lenses but not with some AF lenses. Since I think most people who buy this camera only use the kit lens anyway so this won't be a problem.

Take care,
Buddy

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 Jul 2008, 03:44 am »

I don't think Russell is leaning towards the Nikon system, but it may be of significance to note that the kit lens and many other relatively inexpensive lenses all autofocus with the d40, such as the 18-135, 18-70, 18-200, 55-200, 70-300, and on the higher priced end 16-85, 12-24, 14-24, 70-200, 24-120, 200-400 and so on...basically, most every nikon lens designed since 1996. If you already have nikon af (non af-s) lenses, then I would agree, it's a dead end to get the d40, but if you're starting fresh, many of these af-s lenses aren't that expensive and are very sharp. For example, I got my 18-55 refurb (looks and works like new) for just under $50. A basic combo is the d40 w/ 18-55 kit and the 55-200VR that often goes for sale on amazon for around $500, which would do very well for many users. Add an external flash (sb400 is only about $100 new, step up to the sb600, and that's already as powerful as the top level flash) and you're set for almost any situation. I think the only thing that would be nice is bracketing, but I'm not complaining considering the price.