[Danny Richie]

The cost of Copper has been getting out of hand. So the cost of everything using Copper has gone up considerably.

The cost of the Alpha Core foil inductors has gone up about three times recently and is twice as expensive as it used to be.

This increase in the cost of inductors and wire has finally forced me to increase the price of our kits. I guess should have increased the price of our kits a long time ago but I wanted to offer the best possible price all the time.

We have been selling the A/V series kits now for a long time (8 or 9 years) and I have never increased the price in all of those years despite the gradual increase in the cost of everything.

This week I increased the price by $5.00 per speaker on all of our kits. Sorry guys.

The second thing I will be doing is going from using the Alpha Core foil inductors to the Erse XQ perfect lay inductors for all 16 gauge coils.

You can see them here: http://www.erse.cc/coils/perlay/perlay.asp

The decision to go to these inductors over the foil inductors was for several reasons.

For one, the price is a little bit less and it keeps me from having to increase our kit prices further.

Secondly, the price of Copper going up is a result of demand going up. The Chinese are buying it up faster than ever before. This has reduced supply and it has kept Alpha Core from being able to get the raw Copper that they need to produce their inductors. This has resulted in large delays in getting my orders filled. Currently it has caused me to be out of several values. I simply can't afford to be out of stock and waiting on product.

The third thing, that was the final straw, was the last price increase. Unlike the other price increases where the retail price went up and with it my cost, this time they left the retail price alone and just went up on the dealer cost, taking away more of what little margin there was to begin with.

Sound wise these inductors are very close. The difference between the two inductors is very subtle. On a really good system and with the right speakers the foil inductors have a slight trace of openness over the wire wound type, but it is very subtle. It is no where near as easy as hearing the differences in caps and resistors. I don't think that the average kit building customer will notice a difference even in a side by side comparison.

So look for all kits to use these new inductors very soon.

[Bill Baker]

Good move Danny. The Alpha Foil inductors are very nice but the Erse Perfect Lay Air Core pieces are really not far behind them. I have been using them for years and never had any problems with availability or quality. They have always measured very consistently as well. They are among the best in the industry IMHO.

 We all know Danny would not make the switch if it meant sacrificing sonic quality. Not being a foil means they will be easier to work with for the builder as well

[TRADERXFAN]

OK OK, but they don't look as cool! 

[poseidonsvoice]

Danny,

Thanks for your honesty. Several hobbyists will purchase Alpha Core just because its foil and 'foil is better.' However, if the difference is small and the availability and price of the Erse is more and cheaper respectively, then you are doing us the favor.

Anand. 

[cujobob]

Can you keep the Alpha Core Foil Inductors as an upgrade option?

What is the difference in price between the two?

[Danny Richie]

Can you keep the Alpha Core Foil Inductors as an upgrade option?

Right now I can't get any more in 16 gauge.

What is the difference in price between the two?

On a 2.2mH it is $4.38 an inductor. That's about 20% on that value. It may be a little less on smaller values.

[S Clark]

I'm surprised you were able to hold out on price increases for as long as you have.  Copper has been going through the roof for over a year. $10 is a pretty nominal increase on kits that are known to be great values.

[mpm32]

Alpha core is right down the street from where I work.  Do you want me to walk down there and kick some a**?

[BrianP]

Secondly, the price of Copper going up is a result of demand going up. The Chinese are buying it up faster than ever before.

Interesting! Do you think they are trying to corner the world market? Please do not consider this a "racist" statement, but the fact is the Chinese -- despite their now only nominally "communist" govt. -- have been shrewd (and highly civilized) capitalists since Europeans were stone-age barbarians wearing bear skins and living in mud huts.

I had assumed that the price rise was due solely to military consumption. I used to work in scrap metal, and conventional wisdom in that industry was that anytime there was a big war on, copper and its alloys went up in price (shell casings and such). So I figured a tremendous amount of it was just being wasted in Iraq, and no longer available for humane and peaceful purposes like inductors.

So the Chinese angle is an interesting twist. Interesting question: what happens when the U.S. defense industry becomes entirely dependent on foreign sources for its raw materials? Or do we eventually lose even THAT essential industry to foreign outsourcing? Have all our ships, tanks, artillery, etc. built by a potential future enemy???

[doug s.]

Secondly, the price of Copper going up is a result of demand going up. The Chinese are buying it up faster than ever before.

Interesting! Do you think they are trying to corner the world market? Please do not consider this a "racist" statement, but the fact is the Chinese -- despite their now only nominally "communist" govt. -- have been shrewd (and highly civilized) capitalists since Europeans were stone-age barbarians wearing bear skins and living in mud huts.

I had assumed that the price rise was due solely to military consumption. I used to work in scrap metal, and conventional wisdom in that industry was that anytime there was a big war on, copper and its alloys went up in price (shell casings and such). So I figured a tremendous amount of it was just being wasted in Iraq, and no longer available for humane and peaceful purposes like inductors.

So the Chinese angle is an interesting twist. Interesting question: what happens when the U.S. defense industry becomes entirely dependent on foreign sources for its raw materials? Or do we eventually lose even THAT essential industry to foreign outsourcing? Have all our ships, tanks, artillery, etc. built by a potential future enemy???

i'd love to answer this, but this question is political, & not allowed in the a/c forums...

doug s.

[Danny Richie]

I don't have a problem with Brian's questions, but Doug is right. We can't go down that road, so let's not.

[doug s.]

I don't have a problem with Brian's questions, but Doug is right. We can't go down that road, so let's not.

i don't have a problem w/it either, but as someone who has paid the price for getting inwolwed in discussions as this, & as someone who would love to respond to the question, i am sensitive to political discussions on a/c...   

doug s.

[tizeye]

Getting back on topic (but I love the sub-topic too, as it impacts my other hobbies as well with titanium and carbon fiber scarcity demand and pricing)....

I don't blame you at all for raising the prices, and everyone has to admit that was such a small increase - about 4% plus component switch.  The question is, does that also apply to the Neo-1/1x/2x that were introduced about 6 weeks ago? Price increase? Component switch?  I notice there is no page on the GR site that directly discusses these kits yet as it is strictly limited to the three threads.  Any timeframe on that to help pull everything together in a standardized manner rather than the threads that the nature of discussion takes it off on tangents? 

Also, while I know you are busy, may want to edit existing pages on the current kits beyond the simple price increase to avoid any misunderstanding.  For example, the A/V-1 has a photo of components which clearly shows the Air Core.  May want to re-take it with the Perfect Lay and add text that specifically stated components.  Keep it simple, brands, not values of each.  Example would be Perfect Lay inductors, Erse Capacitors, Lynk resistors as standard, Sonicap replace Erse capacitors on upgrade, etc.

[WerTicus]

switch to gold

[mumford]

Actually a simple solution is switch to Euro pricing.

[Danny Richie]

The question is, does that also apply to the Neo-1/1x/2x that were introduced about 6 weeks ago?Price increase? Component switch?

I will be switching to the new perfect lay inductors for those but it will not effect the price as it was a recent kit and prices were based on the last price point of the foil inductors.

I notice there is no page on the GR site that directly discusses these kits yet as it is strictly limited to the three threads.  Any timeframe on that to help pull everything together in a standardized manner rather than the threads that the nature of discussion takes it off on tangents? 

I'll try to get it added to my site as soon as I can.

Also, while I know you are busy, may want to edit existing pages on the current kits beyond the simple price increase to avoid any misunderstanding. 

Yea, I will need to do new pics and update all of that stuff. Right now those kits are still going out with foil inductors as I am still waiting on the perfect lay inventory to get here.

[Hank]

Proper move, Danny.  I too am a bit surprised you held off this long.  3M uses a lot of copper and our metals commodity specialist has been keeping tabs on it for a long time - what a cost graph!  A couple of our divisions are doing well and they use copper in products, so it's not just the Chinese 

[Optichammer]

"Not for nothin'" but I really think (somewhat) loosely wound coils sound better than the neat perfect lay variety. It takes more wire to do it, but there is a difference in sound. I wind my own, magnet wire has gone up a lot as well. -Eric

[KS]

The second thing I will be doing is going from using the Alpha Core foil inductors to the Erse XQ perfect lay inductors for all 16 gauge coils.

You can see them here: http://www.erse.cc/coils/perlay/perlay.asp

Sound wise these inductors are very close.

What's wrong with iron-core inductors?...slow transient response?

By the way, for the benefit of a friend in Denmark, are there reasonably priced European inductors and capacitors you like nearly as well as Sonicap/Erse/Alpha-Core?

[Danny Richie]

What's wrong with iron-core inductors?...slow transient response?

They don't sound as good. I won't use them for anything playing over 200Hz.

Think of it this way. Remember when you learned that you could wrap a wire around a nail then hook it to a battery to make an electromagnet? If you then remove the wire from the battery you will note that the nail still maintained a residual charge and still had some magnetism to it.

Inductors are the same way. If you put a core through the center of it, the signal passing through the wire is altered by the core. The core raises the inductance. However, after the signal has been sent there is still some residual charge held by the core. This acts as if it stores then releases energy at a slower rate then the input signal passing through the wire.

The sonic effect is a smearing of the music.

By the way, for the benefit of a friend in Denmark, are there reasonably priced European inductors and capacitors you like nearly as well as Sonicap/Erse/Alpha-Core?

The Mundorf inductors should be on pair with them.