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Eric D

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« on: 3 Nov 2003, 05:32 pm »
I was in awe over the weekend.  Got to hear a demonstration of SOCS and finally had the technology explained to me such that it got through my thick skull.

Don't mean this to be self-promotional, but check out my attempt to explain by analogy in the SOCS thread of the AV123 Circle.  I didn't want to start competing threads, but also didn't figure that people might wander over there.
[edit]  Here's the thread in the AV123 Circle
Sorry I don't know how to specify the exact reply in the thread.  Thanks, Rocket [/edit]

The short and sweet of my impression: in the future, no system will be able to call itself "reference" without this kind of technology.  (ya know, it's fun to make a "proclamation" every once in a while.)   :D

Yes, I happen to own Rockets so I'm susceptable to the "AV123 paid schill" flames that have hit places time-to-time.  It actually made me consider never posting on this issue, or trying to temper the passion I felt/feel.  Hey, I didn't even win any of the give-aways at the get-together where this was demoed, so I'm more impartial than many of the attendees. So take this only as a data point, and consider if you want to hear it for yourself and form your own opinion.  Definitely caveat emptor.  But I've been so giddy about it since then, I felt I should share.

My honest, personal, unpaid advice to people who spend that kind of money on audio is to start saving now and put this in your upgrade queue.  Or once you finally get to hear it for real at a show or a friend's house, you'll kick yourself for not listening to me now.  (Heh!  More of those "fun" proclamations - I could get used to this pundit stuff!)   :mrgreen:



« Reply #1 on: 3 Nov 2003, 10:31 pm »
Quote from: Eric D
I was in awe over the weekend.  Got to hear a demonstration of SOCS and finally had the technology explained to me such that it got through my thick skull.

If you would elaborate on what SOCS is, what exactly you're in awe of, and what you understand, it would be appreciated by those of us who have no idea what you're talking about.  I'm moving this to Critic's Circle because I'm guessing that this is a review of some sort.  :?:



« Reply #2 on: 3 Nov 2003, 10:51 pm »

socs is the speaker correction software for the perpetual technologies p1a computer.

it has taken about 5 years to get it up and running.  eric what is the chance of posting a link of your thread at the av123 forum?



Eric D

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« Reply #3 on: 4 Nov 2003, 11:38 pm »
SOCS = Speaker Only Correction Software
RCS = Room Correction Software - a superset of SOCS.

And yes, Rocket was correct about what it is.  Sorry for not being more specific.  I'd seen the acronym bandied about and had to do a lot of looking a while back to find out - figured it was just me the noob that didn't know.

I was also having troubles figuring where to put it.  It's digital, but for right now it's only for 2 channels.  And I really didn't think it was a review so I didn't place this it in the Critics Corner.  Since it was a bit of geeky admiration, I placed it in the associated circle (AV123).  But I thought it would be of interest to the 2-channel crowd mostly - that's why I referenced it [weakly] there.

The phrases I chose are easily taken as hyperbole - intentionally.  I don't think I make a good "critic" for this - I need to leave that to others.  I don't have a lot of experience at how other attempts at phase corrections  - things like time-aligned speakers and single-driver crossoverless designs, so I figured to leave critical comments to those who have gone through such things.  This is a digital end-run in software

I'm sure it was discussed at length when the original demos were held back a few years, and that some of you probably participated.  It's time to dredge up those old discussions again.  So if you're curious, you might just drop in on that thread - here it is again for completeness:

Have fun,


« Reply #4 on: 4 Nov 2003, 11:40 pm »
I don't think you are an AV123 schill.

Jay S

« Reply #5 on: 5 Nov 2003, 12:47 am »
I am hopeful they can get this in full production soon.  I bought a P3a dac a bit over 2 years ago, hoping that SOCS and RCS would be right around the corner.  Who knows, while I am moving towards a single-box solution, SOCS (be it from PT or another company) may get me back in the dac camp.


« Reply #6 on: 5 Nov 2003, 03:39 am »
I don't think you are a schill either.  People have been waiting for this technology to come along for years.  It's very exciting to hear the technology is out and that it is as good as many people hoped it would be.  Congratulations on your  purchase!  It's looking, more and more, like the future is upon us!  What's next, sexy cyborg robot chicks catering to our ever desire?   Hey, sign me up!



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« Reply #7 on: 5 Nov 2003, 01:55 pm »
Doesn't the SOCS system require the P-1A? If so, I'll bet the price of used P-1A's will jump. Better get them while they are still cheap on A'gon. I don't think I will put mine up for sale anytime soon.

This development seems to throw another dagger into my plans for the Sony all-in-one solution since I don't think you can combine the P-1A with the Sony (I don't think the Sony has a digital input).


« Reply #8 on: 5 Nov 2003, 02:25 pm »
Thanks for clarification.  I think this is probably more of a 'digitial domain' issue but, I can see how it'd be tough to find the right place to post... however, since you bought a product, and reviewed its results, this area seemed best.

However, if someone in Critic's Circle moves it back to 2-channel, that'd be fine with me... I'm still not clear as to how SOCS would be implemented but, that's my issue... and maybe an explanation of SOCS and details of how you've implemented would be a better 2-channel topic starter.


Eric D

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« Reply #9 on: 5 Nov 2003, 03:26 pm »
Nah, don't need to move it anywhere - it's all good.  Like I said, I didn't know if it was two-channel or digital.  Being as it's still pre-production, I did think it was best to leave the detailed discussion in the mfr's circle.  But I thought that people who don't visit the circle should know about it - at least enough to seed a conversation - if there was indeed interest it would take root.  Anyway, my proclamations and punditry probably belong best in the Critic's Circle.  You know, "Those who can, do.  Those who can't, criticize! "
:lol:  (at myself mostly!) :lol:

Let me say I have NOT purchased a P1A (yet ;)).  And SOCS is not out yet - according to Mark Schifter it should be in the first month or two of 2004.  To be clear, what I went to was a demo of the final software - what people heard a few years back was  prototype.  They are now done with the software solution, and the hardware (the P1A) has been done (and apparently overdone to many :) ) for a while.  Now it's just putting the business infrastructure in place.  

The couple of posts above represent the kind of reason I wanted to get the discussion started.  I thought good points have been made about the prices of used P1As (Yes, SOCS/RCS does require a P1A), and this next couple of months may find you not wanting to abandon any existing boxes that would work with the technology.  If I can prevent one "Da#@, I shouldn't have sold my unit-x one month ago!," I'll be very happy.  I knew I did not know enough about this to see all the implications.  Hey, if I'd understood it well enough about 6 months ago, I could have saved myself some money.  Maybe someone will pay me back (at least karmically).

Prior to last Sat, I didn't know what the technology was besides equalization.  I'm still not clear on exactly what they are fixing beyond SOCS with RCS - the demo was just of a speaker-only correction.  But I understand the method, and that's more than I can say for lots of the expensive things that are supposed to make the difference between mid-fi and hi-fi.

Have a good one, and hope to see some of you in the other discussion.