Looking for something in between these amps

mca · « **on:** 1 Jul 2008, 06:00 am »

I spent about four hours this evening comparing two amps that I have in house. The first is a Music Reference RM200 that I have had for about a year. The second amp is a class D Wyred4Sound amp that I bought used and have had for a couple of weeks.

System is Dali Helicon 800 speakers, Modwright SWL 9.0SE pre and a fully Bolder modded SB3. Cables are by Reality cable and PC's are Black Sand Violet.

The RM200 is smooth and on the warmer side and very easy to listen to. I have come to the conclusion though that the top end is a bit rolled off and some of the musical details are obscured. Bass, while not as tight or deep as the Wyred amp, is still very good.

What I found with the Wyred amp is lots of detail. Notes really jump out of the speakers, making me feel like I'm in the front row of a concert. This added detail was intoxicating and made me really zero in on instruments. I listened through two Alison Krauss albums and was totally captivated with Jerry Douglas' dobro playing. This is one of my favorite instruments and I have never heard it sound to good.

The drawback for me with the Wyred amp was that overall it sounded a bit too bright and thin. This was especially apparent with vocals. Alison could sometimes sound piercing and the Dan Tyminsky tunes kind of lost his signature sound.

OK, so I'm not very good at describing what I hear, but basically I'm trying to find something that combines the positive aspects of both of these amps. I'm OK with staying with tubes or trying out a solid state amp.

pbrstreetgang · « **Reply #1 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 06:34 am »

Tried the H2O amp? Similar B&O module but with a class A worthy PS. It could almost make me forget tubes

Zero · « **Reply #2 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 06:41 am »

I was actually about to suggest the same thing. The H2O Signature 100 + Modwright + the slightly warmish Dali Helicon series = exceptional sound!

zybar · « **Reply #3 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 10:39 am »

What is your price range?

Any other requirements to factor into the recommendations?

George

rockadanny · « **Reply #4 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 11:12 am »

A hybrid might be the answer. The AVA Fet Valve Ultra provides the extension you're desiring without any glare or thinness. Just clean, clear, full output. Very strong performer. First 20 watts of the 550 are class A (not sure how many for the 350). Frank also has a 30-day money back trial period - cost would be shipping only. It is not a warm amp (nor is it cold), but it is very smooth.

Imperial · « **Reply #5 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 11:46 am »

How about Ampzilla? I'm sure that a 100W Son of Ampzilla 2K should be sufficient in this situation, power-wise.
Sound-wise, well... it's my best bet.

Imperial

mca · « **Reply #6 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 02:10 pm »

I've never heard of the H2O amplifier. Reading the positive feedback review, it sounds like they could be describing the Wyred amp. A few things in the review stood out to me:

"Instruments stood crisply at attention, though they lacked the body that my tube amps provide", "The H2O lacked the warmth and inner light that characterizes the best tube gear", "deeper voice like Joe Williams' was missing the slow warmth it has with my tube amps", "Female voices sounded a bit more forward than usual", "In the treble region, the H2O had detail like that of solid-state gear that costs many times as much, though it lacked the inner light, and the warmth and emotional involvement, of the best tube gear"

While auditioning this amp would be the only way to know how it sounds in my system for sure, these comments tend to make it sound like I would be getting into the exact same thing as the Wyred amp. I don't want to end up substituting detail for emotional involvement.

mca · « **Reply #7 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 02:21 pm »

My price range is about 4k but I would be willing to spend a little more if it gets me closer to what I'm searching for. No other factors just as long as it's not some design that uses 20 tubes per side or something crazy like that.

The AVA amp is something that I am very interested in. I heard a 550 long ago in another system and thought it sounded very good. It stomped the Butler amp I had at the time. I may have to make a call to Frank and see what the wait time is to give one a try.

I'd love to hear the Ampzilla, but it's crazy looks are something I just can't get past.

zybar · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 02:30 pm »

Mike,

I haven't directly heard them, but I think a Pass x.5 series or the newest Spectron amp might be worth an audition or listen in the price range you mentioned.

George

woodsyi · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 03:02 pm »

Interesting quest you got here. I have been looking at class A SS amps to fill in for my "20 plustubes" amps during the summer. I just picked up a 20watt class A ss amp to try on my ribbons. I, too, find switching amps to be grating in the long run -- they are great though with big woofers. Class A maybe what you need -- I will let you know how it goes.

mfsoa · « **Reply #10 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 03:19 pm »

Can you try to biamp?

I just tried this w/ a Sunfire 625 watt solid stater (1300 watts/ 4 ohm

) on my bass cabs (200hz on down) and my VAC 100 watts on the mid/tweeter cabinet and I'm lovin' it.

The performance of the tube amp got better having only to do 200 hz and up.
And 1000+ SS watts on the bass - Very nice.

-Mike

rydenfan · « **Reply #11 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 03:49 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 1 Jul 2008, 02:30 pm

Mike,

I haven't directly heard them, but I think a Pass x.5 series or the newest Spectron amp might be worth an audition or listen in the price range you mentioned.

George

I think both of these are excellent suggestions. I would think a used Pass labs X250.5 would be right in your price range and may be a great fit? BRM uses a 350.5 with his Modwright 36.5 and likes the combination very much. I just purchased a Spectron Musician III and will post my impressions of it once I have spent some time with it.

Zero · « **Reply #12 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 04:42 pm »

MCA, Having heard H2O's Signature 250 amplifiers (as reviewed by Positive Feedback and 6moons); I'd actually concur with the general sentiment/conclusions of the reviewers. They are fine amplifiers in their own right, but can sound rather bland/dry. The Signature 100 is a different beast. Despite being less expensive, it is without question the better sounding amplifier and curbs nearly every typical known compromise (lack of "love") that comes with the topology. You've got the right situation to make it work, and rather splendidly I may add.

The Pass Labs XA30.5 may be a fine solution should you desire a bit of warmth. It's also worth noting that McIntosh amplifiers mate famously with Dali loudspeakers.

saisunil · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 05:23 pm »

Quote from: mca on 1 Jul 2008, 02:21 pm

My price range is about 4k but I would be willing to spend a little more if it gets me closer to what I'm searching for. No other factors just as long as it's not some design that uses 20 tubes per side or something crazy like that.

Hi Mike,

For exactly $4k (unless Paul raised his price) - you can get SST-225 from Tube Research Labs and according to Paul it sounds better than his Tube amps that have 20 tubes per side and cost tens of thousands of $.

This is one of the best amps there is and will drive anything ...

http://tuberesearchlabs.com/contactus.htm

Give Paul a call ....

Cheers
Sunil.

lazydays · « **Reply #14 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 05:39 pm »

Quote from: mca on 1 Jul 2008, 02:21 pm

My price range is about 4k but I would be willing to spend a little more if it gets me closer to what I'm searching for. No other factors just as long as it's not some design that uses 20 tubes per side or something crazy like that.

The AVA amp is something that I am very interested in. I heard a 550 long ago in another system and thought it sounded very good. It stomped the Butler amp I had at the time. I may have to make a call to Frank and see what the wait time is to give one a try.

I'd love to hear the Ampzilla, but it's crazy looks are something I just can't get past.

Call Klause Bunge for a pair of Glass Ceiling mono blocs, and then buy all of us a beer with all that money left over
gary

Imperial · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 06:36 pm »

Quote from: mca on 1 Jul 2008, 02:21 pm

I'd love to hear the Ampzilla, but it's crazy looks are something I just can't get past.

Right

... But still, think of it as a challenge then. aa

Imperial

Double Ugly · « **Reply #16 on:** 2 Jul 2008, 01:43 am »

I run my Spectron Musician III SE direct into my very neutral speakers, and I have no problems with too little detail or thinness. In fact, I have *more* detail than ever before, but I was most surprised (and pleased) to hear the amp produce a midrange as palpable as my previous power source (hybrid Butler Audio Monad monoblocks w/ a single 300B direct-coupled to the output stage).

I have no regrets replacing the ~$18k retail Butler Audio amps with the Spectron, which is something I didn't expect. It shouldn't prove difficult to find one on the used market for $4k, but I'd speak with Simon @ Spectron before going that route. Simon may be able to make you an attractive factory-direct offer if there are no dealers in your area. I know a lot of other companies do so, but I can't say with certainty the same is true of Spectron.

mca · « **Reply #17 on:** 2 Jul 2008, 04:10 am »

Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys. After spending a better part of the day doing research, I have narrowed my list down to the following amps:

Spectron Musician III
Pass X350.5/250.5
McCormack DNA-500

Although in this price range I will have to buy second hand, I am going to see if there are any local dealers so I can at least get a listen.

Then there's the matter of selling a pair of speakers and a couple amp to help fund this purchase.

If anyone has any further thoughts on the above list, please let me know!

mca · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Jul 2008, 06:48 pm »

Rats, I thought I had a Spectron nabbed on Audiogon, but the bidding went up over what I was willing to pay at the last second. I guess I'll have to keep looking.

zybar · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Jul 2008, 06:53 pm »

Quote from: mca on 7 Jul 2008, 06:48 pm

Rats, I thought I had a Spectron nabbed on Audiogon, but the bidding went up over what I was willing to pay at the last second. I guess I'll have to keep looking.

I saw that Mike.

$5300 was the final price, which feels like it is a little on the high side given the current market for used gear.

Sometimes the seller lucks out and people get caught up in a bidding frenzy and spend more.

Better luck next time.

george