[Rocket]

Hi Guys,

My transaction with an audiogon member has gone slightly haywire.  I recently purchased 2 x N.E.W. 20.1's which are new old stock amplifiers.  I received this email which confirmed that the money had arrived to his bank account.  Btw it costs me $50au everytime I wire transfer money overseas.

Incidentally, I've make a mistake on the shipping cost. I've quoted you for 2 packages for the price of 1 package. I've short quoted $135. It is my fault and I should absorb it. But I'm making a lost in the deal.  my partner is angry with me. I'll appreciate very much if you would pay the different or any amount. This is no obligations.

I'm wondering what my response should be to his request for the difference in shipping costs?  Currently the amplifiers haven't been sent to me although he states he will send them tomorrow.  The N.E.W. 20.1's were a pretty good price but I'm a bit disappointed regarding the email.

Any opinion is greatly appreciated.

Regards

Rod

[jeffreybehr]

IF and only if you get good service from the seller and after the amps arrive safely and in expected condition, I'd send him half of the difference, unless you would have cheerfully paid the full amount in the beginning, in which case I'd send it all.

I end up undercharging lots of 'customers' because the shipping companies seem unable to do accurate estimates.  I'm just glad the stuff is gone.   

[kyrill]

if you have no suspicion and the guy seems honest i would do as Jeffrey suggested but will it tell him beforehand
maybe even pay the full 135.

but my answer to you is how to avoid those outdated extra 50 AU %

In Holland where i live it is possible to have an electronic bank account, meaning i can follow my  bank account on line and pay on line with almost no extra costs at all. This besides Mastercard or paypal options
greetz

[JLM]

Agree with jeffreybehr, but do let him know of your intentions.

[TheChairGuy]

I'd first try to independently confirm from the shipping company what the true cost of the shipping is for the two amps.

Once you have that information - proceed accordingly.

John

[ZLS]

I do not like the dynamic of this situation.  The most important fact that I focused in on is that the amps have NOT been shipped.  The seller has laid the groundwork for not shipping the amps by setting up the "Good Cop-Bad Cop" scenario.  He is not taking responsibility for the request for additional money, he is dealing it off on someone else.  "Listen, I want to ship the amps, but my partner won't let me." 
    The seller can phrase it as pretty or politely as he wants, he wants more money and he is holding your amps hostage.  Think of it this way, how much different would the situation be if he had already shipped the amps and then asked you for more money. 
    This smells in my humble opinion. 

[Bemopti123]

I second ZLS' opinion.  You paid for the amps and the very least he can do is to ship the amps and expect the $135 from you after that.  At the very worst, he should ship one of the amps and if you do not want to pay for the $135, send you the difference.  Do you really need 2 of the amps?  I would approach him as that, "Please ship one amp and refund me for the other one because I did not expect the charges to be that high."  See how he reacts.

PS:  Good luck in getting a refund, usually unless people are very cooperative, they tend not to want refunds.

Paul

[Canyoneagle]

I'm with ZLS on this.
I'd check his A'gon rating, and if it is decent, then I'd feel a bit better about it.

If he does not have any feedback, I'd be concerned about the integrity of the seller.

Good luck, and I sincerely hope that everything works out.

EDIT:  I just read your "full circle" post, and saw that the seller has a 129 rating, so that is a good sign, IMO.

[Christopher Witmer]

There are two separate issues here -- the additional cost of shipping and the additional AUD50 cost of another bank transfer. Trying to confirm the actual cost of shipping is a very good idea. If I didn't object to paying the difference for the shipping, I would tell the seller that I intend to pay him, but only after the amplifiers arrive safely. For that amount, I would also probably put cash in an envelope and mail it via registered mail rather than do a bank transfer. Or, I would tell him, "Okay, but allow me to deduct the cost of the bank transfer from the amount that I send you."

Making the seller wait until after the amplifiers arrive safely to get the extra payment for shipping will give him additional incentive to pack very carefully.

-- Chris

P.S. I have never used Audiogon. Can a seller suppress negative feedback?

[woodsyi]

Are these the amps? http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1218743361

He can't put two of them in one bigger box?

[MaxCast]

I agree with what has been said.
verify the shipping cost.
agree to send him $x, less transfer fee, after amps arrive.

[DaveC113]

His feedback looks good, I'd guess hes being honest, but he should absorb the $50 au fee if you can't find another way to send the money. You should probably pay immediately, thats usually the way its done...

[Kevin Haskins]

You morally don't have to do anything but pay what was originally negotiated for the product and shipping.    If you get the product and it is as advertised, you may want to just send him a check for some of the difference.  That would be a NICE thing to do but not morally required of you.    With a check, you avoid some of the wire transfer fee and he would pay for whatever cost of the exchange at his bank.   It will be less than the wire transfer fee because there isn't the instant transfer and safety of a wire transfer. 

But it really was a mistake by the seller, not you.    I've made mistakes in quoting shipping etc.. and I don't expect the customer to pay for my mistake.   It is a learning experience, you get better at making sure you quote the right shipping amount.        

[nodiak]

Kevins right. And there's nothing mean about it, it simply wasn't your fault. The only reason to pay any more money is if you're willing to take that loss to insure he will send the amps, but no moral obligation on your part.
You should find out if he intends to not send them without more money, he needs to make that statement if so. Then you will know the situation. Also if the seller sees this thread he may want to just send the amps and deal with the unfortunate wrath of his partner.
I had a much smaller version of this situation and paid someone an extra $12 for packing materials, but they were getting psycho and it felt like money well spent, one less pizza, no big deal. Doesn't look like you should have any problem with the integrity of this person tho.
jmo, Don

[Rocket]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the posts and the advice from everyone is appreciated.

I've discount from Fedex and is cheaper of all even our local SingPost courier service. I suggest that we shall not save on shipping cost but rather save on bank fees or paypal fees. I suggest you send me the additional money through registered mail will do. It may takes about 7 days to reach me but I'll still go ahead to dispatch the 2 amps out tomorrow morning. I'll forward out photo of the packaging to give you an ideal what you should receive. Also provide you the tracking no after collection.

Thanks for your kind understanding.

I will wait until the amplifiers arrive before I do anything else and then I'll decide how much extra I will send him.  A money order won't cost too much.  I intend to monoblock the amplifiers and that is why I'm going to use 2 of them.

The timing isn't very good because I'm still saving for the my new speakers that i've ordered.  This is the first issue that I've had using audiogon and lesson learnt I'll be a bit more wary next time.

Regards

Rod

[Duke]

I've been on both sides of this issue...

In this case I think it's fair that the buyer pay the correct shipping amount (verified with the shipping company if there's some question about it), but less the extra wire transfer fee which the seller's mistake has imposed on the transaction.  I think the extra shipping (less wire transfer fee) should be paid before the item is shipped, or at least an understanding should be reached before the item is shipped.

Duke

[Rocket]

Deleted double post.

[Rocket]

Hi Duke,

It certainly has me in a quandary.  I will more than likely pay the difference but I want to make sure that I receive the product and in the condition that it has been described.

No point in losing any further money on the transaction if I don't have to.  At the end of the day I like to be able to sleep at night and who knows he might have a nice N.E.W. p3 preamp that he has lying around.

Regards

Rod

[whubbard]

Rod,

I would give FedEx a call and ask for a quote. I think you will then know your answer. ($135 does make sense for 2 amps...but you never know.) Especially if the guys says he is getting a discount. If its $135 and he is getting a discount, he is ripping you off.

Also, can you not paypal him the 40 bucks? it would only cost you about $1 in paypal fees.

-West

Hate to say it but his rate is crap. I tried it and it came out to 68 AUD. I'm going to try again...but sadly I think he is playing you. 40lbs from Singapore to Perth is 68AUD from FedEx.com!

[Rocket]

Hi Guys,

The amps were received and this is the email that I sent to him:

Are these amps NOS?  There is no plastic wrapping on the faceplate (chrome) and it was full of marks/grime and hand prints.  I would have thought there would be no marks on the amplifier if it was NOS.  In an attempt to remove the marks I have damaged the letter on one of the faceplates.  At this stage I have listened to the amplifier and it appears to sound fine and I'm happy with that aspect of the deal.

This is the email that I received from him:

Yes. I was told these amps are NOS. The faceplate come clean. My partner told it out from the box to test the amp prior send out. This is our standard procedure. Sorry that he didn't clean them before repack it. As there are no plastic wrapping on the faceplate that I'm not sure as I'm not familiar with these product.

I thought I did a good job on the packing and by dispatching the amps soonest as promised. Since you're not happy and disappointed with the transaction. I'll honor to take it back. If you agreed, I'll pay the shipping cost to take both amps and I'll refund the full amount less the shipping cost of $200 (send to you). Please let me know. Waiting for your reply.

This is the email that I intend to send to him tonight and I'd like to know your opinions on the subject.  His rating on Audiogon was almost faultless.  Am I being unreasonable?

[/Typically these amps sell for $350 - 400US secondhand in good condition on Audiogon.  They originally sold for $1000us and were available here in Australia for $1500au.  N.E.W. went into liquidation some time around 2000 and I had one of the original 20.1 amplifiiers and they definitely came with a plastic removable coating on the faceplate (to protect the chrome).  I'd say that these have been used, at some stage, for demonstration purposes and have been used previously by the dealer and thus the marks on the faceplate.  The markings look like finger smugs that have been left there for a long time and they weren't cleaned prior to packing or the amps weren't stored in a cool dry area and the chrome has reacted with the air.  My problem is mainly with one of the amplifiers that I tried to remove the smudges and most of the etching has come off unfortunately.

I was able to clean one of the faceplates and it now looks reasonable but up close I can see imperfections in the chrome.  Its not a major issue but I thought I was buying an amplifier that was almost as new because it was advertised as NOS.  The imperfections have been probably caused because of the time that the chrome has had the smudges on it.

Firstly, I'm reluctant to send the amplifiers back because there really isn't any come back for me if the transaction goes haywire.  As you know its really a matter of trust when purchasing off the internet and sites like Audiogon.  I was happy with how quickly you sent the amplifiers and how it was packed.  But I was also speedy with the wire transfer and in fact organised it on the day that we agreed on the price.

I propose the following:

1.  I keep the amplifiers but don't pay the extra that I intended to pay (I may be able to source another faceplate from the ex dealer here in perth but it will cost some money to do that).

2.  I return the amplifiers but I would need to be recompensed prior to doing so or possibly a holding transaction be set up which I think paypal can organised.

Please let me know your thoughts.  I am an honest person and I'm being truthful in regard to the faceplates.  I'm fussy with my gear and I would like it to look good in my system.
quote]

Best wishes

Rod