Sweet sounding tube amp (VAC Avatar) keeps calling me

Mathew_M · « **on:** 13 Jan 2003, 04:53 am »

Today I auditioned a Vac Avatar integrated that someone locally is selling. He had it hooked up to some nice looking B&W monitors a Cary 303 CDP and a Rega TT were the sources. I've been looking at experimenting with tubes in the amp stage for awhile. This Avatar is extremely sweet sounding on the right recordings in triode mode. I stupidly forgot to listen to the 60 watt pentode. As I listened I couldn't get over the 3d imaging and sweetness....however I was sort of annoyed with the lack transparency and speed compared to my tube pre/ss amp VMPS ribbon setup. Is this a characteristic of B&W speakers? Never hearing them before I have no frame of reference. He's looking for a quick sale and has someone else interested. I think it's a good deal at $1900, the thing only has 50 hours on it...probably not even fully broken in. I told him that I'd let him know by the morning. Im just thinking that perhaps it is too tubey...but I can't stop think about the sound. It was definately colored, lending a sepia tone to certain recordings....good? bad? I'm not sure. I do know that Coltrane's sax came alive playing through his Rega TT.

Just needing some advice for a wishy washy guy like myself.

Tyson · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 Jan 2003, 05:14 am »

I seriously doubt that will be enough power or control. I've heard a good 30 watt and a good 100 watt tube amp on my 40's, and neither one had the control and power needed for these speakers to sing. Now, an AR VT-200 like audiojerry has, that might be interesting. . . .

Tyson · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Jan 2003, 05:24 am »

Of course, if you are going to keep a SS amp for the bass, then the VAC might work pretty well. . .

Mathew_M · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Jan 2003, 05:38 am »

I own the 626 ribbons. I was under the impression that 60 watts would be ample for them. I didn't notice any problems with the B&Ws and aren't they supposedly pretty inefficient. I'm wavering on staying separates or trying an integrated. I'd like to nip the upgrade bug for awhile...

Tyson · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Jan 2003, 06:07 am »

Oops, sorry, thought you had the 40's. W/the 626r's, I've heard them w/a 75 watt tube amp and they sounded great.

The lack of transparency and speed is more likely related to the speakers than the amps, as ribbon speakers are especially good in these areas. . .

Mathew_M · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Jan 2003, 08:09 pm »

Well I passed on the Avatar. In retrospect it did seem a bit hard at louder volumes, esp. on strings and sort of closed in. Also it lacked detail...I'm sure it wasn't the speakers because B&Ws are known for being analytical. However it imaged beautifully and had a good pace. Oh well.

Mathew_M · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Jan 2003, 08:54 pm »

You know I keep wanting to confuse speed and pace when describing sound. A component could still have a good 'pace' and rhythm but be blurred (lacking detail) which is how I would describe the sound of the Avatar and a lot of other tube products (though not on VMPS speakers). A good analogy is film stock and shutter speed. A 400 ASA film stock is great for low light shooting and will capture movement without blurring better than 200 stock but will exhibit a grainyness and lack of depth of field. These could be considered attributes of solid state. The 200 speed requires more light (higher efficiency speakers and or higher wattage) and a faster shutter speed (good source and or ribbons in the speakers) but will give a finer detailed (less grainy) and more colorful picture (3d like imaging). There are of course discrepancies...

jackman · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Jan 2003, 09:04 pm »

Tyson, you are on the right track regarding Jerry's amp. I was very impressed with the power, control and smoothness of that amp. It is a total tank, however. I believe it weighs over 150 lbs.! Also, seems to be a bit of a space heater. If I had the $$$ (they are about ten grand new!), it would be on my list.

J