[ThorsHammer]

I'm a novice at this and could use a little help. Am currently in the process of upgrading my system. Right now I'm running Athena's...F2 floorstanding fronts..C center...B2 backs...from a HK 7200. System has to double for music and HT and the use is probably split about 60/40 and looking forward to more music time as the quality of the speakers increases.

The Athenas were produced by a small Canadian company -API -before they were bought out by Klipsch....think Mirage or Energy speakers for a comparison. They are very well built and ran me about $1000...had great reviews...and do a number of things well. Reproduction of vocals, strings and horns is excellent...high end can be a little harsh and fatiguing and they struggle with piano and bass. Bottom line...probably the top of the low end and just good enough to give me a glimpse into what joy it must be to hear equipment that's closer to the real thing.

I am also currently renovating my house but I can't wait any longer to upgrade...I've got the upgrade fever bad....but it will put a limit on me so I've set my near term sights on getting in the bottom half of the top end. I really only have one goal for my system...I simply want it to sound as close as possible to being there live. I don't like overly processed or cabinet affected sound. I just want honest, clear, detailed reproduction. I'll take the good with the bad as far as recordings go, I just want the sonic truth. Which actually had me leaning to Maggies for awhile but decided on a more directed sound.

I did a lot of research and had settled on the Paradigm Studio 20s and the 590 center as interim speakers before I came upon this site. Now, after reading everything I can find about the "Salk sound" I'm hooked. Sometimes you just get a feeling that something is right and I get that feeling about these speakers. I've decided to start out with the STs and the SongCenter and upgrade as my budget allows. I like my HK 7200 but it is showing some idiosyncracies so I've decided to go to the Emotiva XPA-5 or LPA-7 amp and the UMC-1 pre.

Two questions - short term I want to continue to use my Athena F2 floorstanders as rears and may even keep the B2s if I go to a 7 channel. I'm a big believer in the matched harmonics of speakers...will the quality difference in the SongTowers and the Athenas be so apparent that it will have a negative impact on the listening experience...has anyone used floorstanders as rears? Here is the Athena info if interested...review and specs -       
http://www.athenaspeakers.com/awardImages/ASF2%20Stereophile%20final.pdf

- and, what should I expect in terms of improvement...definitely noticeable, possibly "blown away", from a 5 to an 8...something in that ballpark? I know it's subjective but I'm sure you guys didn't all start at the top, lol. Thanks in advance.

[bpape]

IMO, it's going to be a very large improvement across the spectrum.  More dynamics, more timbrally accurate, better imaging, etc.  Also, the better equipment you put in front of them, the better they'll perform. 

Bryan

[Nuance]

I have used towers as rears before and they sounded great.  Just be sure you position them properly and level match the system when you are finished. 

The most important speakers to timbre match are the front three.  Timbre matching the surrounds and rears will improve the overall sound stage, but if you have to pick a set of speakers that can't be timbre matched, it should be the rears.  I do, of course, recommend a timbre match all the way around, but you have to do what you have to do. 

Oh...I think the switch to the Song Tower's is going to net you a huge performance gain.  That's just my $0.02.  YMMV.

[JLM]

Have you heard Salks or the Songtowers?  On a scale of 1 - 10 of audiophile sound quality, I'd say your current system is about a 3 for music and a 6 for HT.  I'd would rate the Paradigm Studio 20's no better than 5/5.  Songtowers IMO are about a 7 for music or HT because:

1. Jim himself offers better
2. They don't plumb the absolute depths of bass
3. They don't use the most exotic drivers
4. You can't expect high output from two 5 inch mid/woofers
5. Hey, they're only $1500/pair

Part of the attraction to Salks is the woodworking, value, and Jim (in reverse order of importance).  At this price point there will be compromises.  Are these three aspects the most important to you?  How is/has your decision making process been influenced by the remodeled room they'll be used in?  Of interest is the final design of the room you'll be listening in and how it will affect sound and sight of your system.

It's quite doutful that you'll have timbrel matching between Athena and Salk speakers, but frankly as long as the front three speakers are matched you're OK.  Note that detailed speakers will show off all the warts of your entire system.  As a "speaker guy" I always start system design with speakers, but the whole must be considered.  I like HK a lot as upper consumer hi-fi stuff.  What is your current source?

Presuming you have (or will get) a sub and are searching for the truth, why not look for a high quality monitor?  Interim monitors could end up becomig your final rear channel speakers.  Have you considered high-end headphones as an interim music solution and keeping the Athena/HK system for HT until (literally) the dust settles?  (I'm grimacing a bit thinking of what could happen around contractors and home renovation confusion to your system, especially if you just bought nice speakers.)

[Big Red Machine]

You'll be blown away by how effortless and real they sound.  I am sure you will kick yourself for waiting so long to upgrade.  I can't be as eloquent as JLM.

[ThorsHammer]

Thanks guys...that is exactly the kind of info I needed. I'm at peace with my decision now.

As for timbre matching...since the f/l/c will be the SongTowers and SongCenter, no problem there. I'll just dial the Athena floorstanders in as rears as best I can until I upgrade the rears.

jlm - couldn't agree more with your assessment of my current systems sound quality ranking and if I can move from a 3 to a 7 I will be extremely satisfied.

I did the reno work on that room first so contact should be minimal going forward. And, maybe if I hadn't read these threads I could have held off...but it's going to be hard enough waiting for the STs once I place my order, don't think I could make it any longer and by the time they arrive the interior work should be about finished. I was more concerned with the limits they were putting on my upgrade budget as I would really like the HT3s...but like they say, "you have to stop somewhere". As for how I value the various aspects of a speaker it is definitely the sound first and all other considerations second....the beauty of the STs is just an added bonus.

Man, I am really looking forward to this....

[Big Red Machine]

The reply by Mr superstar to this thread may seal the deal for you:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13988852&posted=1#post13988852

[tgp06]

Just another "warm,fuzzy".Received my Songtowers last week.I've heard the HT-3s a number of times, and fairly extensively two weeks ago.My first thought upon hearing the STs was, "I'm listening to the HT-3s!" Never expected what I heard. The mids/highs are exceptional, but that was somewhat expected after all I have read. The bass absolutely floored me! As accurate as I've experienced, and much deeper than I anticipated. You've made a good choice!

[funkmonkey]

You did make a good choice, but I couldn't resist and threw my budget out the window and went for the HT3s! 
Just added a HTC to my order as well.

if you want further conformation that you made a good decision check out my "Speakerquest" thread over at AVS, and/or Nuances "My Journey to find the "perfect" speaker..." thread.  We both independently auditioned many, many speakers before deciding to go with speakers from Jim.

Cheers,
-Funk

[tgp06]

Funk,
Can't go the budget busting route, yet. The HT3s are on the distant horizon; unreal speakers in all aspects- probably limited only by what one is feeding them! The STs amaze because of the large percentage of the HT3's sound they achieve. The fact they do it at such an attractive price point is impressive.
Tom

[JLM]

I heard the ST vs HT3 in the same room with the same amps/source at AKFest last month, and frankly in that room, the differences were very minor.  Note that nearly all speakers with decent/good deep bass had trouble (produced an 80 Hz boom) in those roughly 12 ft x 15 ft rooms.

[zybar]

I heard the ST vs HT3 in the same room with the same amps/source at AKFest last month, and frankly in that room, the differences were very minor.  Note that nearly all speakers with decent/good deep bass had trouble (produced an 80 Hz boom) in those roughly 12 ft x 15 ft rooms.

I owned the HT3's and own the ST's...trust me, the differences are much more than minor.

George

[Nuance]

I heard the ST vs HT3 in the same room with the same amps/source at AKFest last month, and frankly in that room, the differences were very minor.  Note that nearly all speakers with decent/good deep bass had trouble (produced an 80 Hz boom) in those roughly 12 ft x 15 ft rooms.

I owned the HT3's and own the ST's...trust me, the differences are much more than minor.

George

I've talked to many people who have heard or own both, and they all said the same thing you did.  But they also said that the Song Tower's are amazing for a mere $1700 a pair. 

Thor - Congrats on your decision.  Enjoy!

[sanlanman]

I heard the ST vs HT3 in the same room with the same amps/source at AKFest last month, and frankly in that room, the differences were very minor.  Note that nearly all speakers with decent/good deep bass had trouble (produced an 80 Hz boom) in those roughly 12 ft x 15 ft rooms.

I was there too. My impressions were similar to yours but I attributed that to the room size & acoustic limitations of the room. I heard the HT3s early and came back later when the STs were playing so take my comments as somewhat subjective since it was not a direct A vs B comparison.

[zybar]

Show conditions are the best way to evaluate gear, but everybody already knows that.

My comments were base don owning HT3's for 2+ years (I had one of the early pairs Jim built) and having the ST for getting close to a year now.

George

[tgp06]

George.
If I somehow got this thread going in the ST vs HT3 direction, it was unintentional. FWIW, I was not trying to equate the STs with the HT3s. Only trying to convey what overachievers the STs are. After numerous sessions with the HT3s (non-show environment), I heard the STs for the first time last week (mine). The fact that my first thought was of the HT3s is, in my opinion, a real positive; certainly making me think more of sonic similarities than differences. The biggest surprise was in the bass extension and quality. I'm certainly not minimizing the HT3s, which will be my next (and likely last) speakers! For now, I can truly enjoy the STs (and Jim's fabulous workmanship) without neurosing over the next step. Uh-oh, that could bring my audiophile standing into question!! Best get rid of that thought...damn the wife, full speed ahead!

[JLM]

Yes, show conditions are best used to veto products, not for serious auditions.  The rooms were only roughly 12 ft x 15 ft, too small for either speaker.  Only the open baffle (from Salk and another vendor) and the transmission line designs sounded good (from the speakers that had deep bass potential).

OTOH it was fairly amazing that the Salk "house sound" came through on all three speakers (of different designs).

[ThorsHammer]

My understanding is that the STs are very forgiving in terms of placement. Ideally I would like them against the wall with the rest of the av gear. They would be about 6' apart and the backs would be 12" away from the wall. But, the fit would be tight and wouldn't allow for me to have any kind of toe-in....and I'm wondering if that limited separation is enough.  If I bring them out into the room they would be about 10' apart, 16" from the nearest wall and probably angled about 15 degrees toward the seating.

Which position would you consider preferable?

[jsalk]

ThorsHammer -

My understanding is that the STs are very forgiving in terms of placement. Ideally I would like them against the wall with the rest of the av gear. They would be about 6' apart and the backs would be 12" away from the wall. But, the fit would be tight and wouldn't allow for me to have any kind of toe-in....and I'm wondering if that limited separation is enough.  If I bring them out into the room they would be about 10' apart, 16" from the nearest wall and probably angled about 15 degrees toward the seating.

Which position would you consider preferable?

There is no question that 10' apart and 16" from the wall would be preferable.  The Songtowers are very flexible in terms of placement, and the narrower placement would probably work, but the results would certainly be superior with wider separation and a greater distance to the rear wall.

In terms of toe-in, the SongTower's horizontal dispersion is excellent.  In theory, you should need little, if any, toe-in.  SongTower owners may want to chime in with their experiences where toe-in is concerned.

- Jim

[bahorn1]

Show conditions are the best way to evaluate gear, but everybody already knows that.

My comments were base don owning HT3's for 2+ years (I had one of the early pairs Jim built) and having the ST for getting close to a year now.

George

Zybar, just curious.  Do you no longer own the HT3s?  If not, why not?  I own the STs and love them.  But I would like to hear the HT3s one day.