[jqp]

I was looking through the list of MFSL Gold CDs and there were some crazy prices - most were between $100 and $200! But some of the new MFSL SACDs are less than $30...Something seems fishy.

I guess it is more of an emotional thing or just an undeserved reputation for MFSL, because from what I understand, the only difference in most of these is that they are gold instead of aluminum.

Check this out:

"Snap, Crackle, and Pop Music

By Roger Nichols

I originally got involved in recording music because I hated clicks and pops on records. I figured that the only way that I was going to get good quality recordings to play was to record them myself. I could then bring home two-track 15 ips copies to play on my stereo. Much better than the Rice Crispy sound of vinyl LPs.

When the Compact Disc became a reality, I was beside myself. I was also close by the side of any record company exec who could get me any discs to play on my new found CD player. Since CDs preserved all the characteristics of the original master tape, I could now enjoy music without the drawbacks of black vinyl.

VINYL VERDICT?

The first project I worked on that became a Compact Disc was Donald Fagen's Nighrfly album. I couldn't wait to get the CD in my hot little hands and compare it with the original mixes. When the CD arrived, I ran to my audio system and threw the CD into my player. After about 30 seconds I was ready to throw in the towel. The CD didn't sound anything like the final mixes. Was I wrong about digital audio? Was the Compact Disc truly inferior to the vinyl disc that it was to replace?

I started doing some checking with the mastering facility where we mastered the album. Bob Ludwig at Masterdisk in New York told me that the record company never asked for the 1610 digital master that we'd made. Instead, they had requested a 30 ips half-inch analog tape copy of our digital mixes. They then made the CD master from this analog copy. No wonder my CD didn't sound like the original mixes. After we raised enough hell, new CD masters were prepared and new CDs were pressed. I compared the new one to the original mixes. It matched perfectly. Whew!

This was in late 1982. I figured that there was a necessary learning curve for the record companies to get their act together and realize that digital audio Compact Discs should not be made from second or third generation analog tape copies. Isn't nine years enough time?

AJA-TA

In 1982, Donald Fagen, Gary Katz and myself gathered up all of the original Steely Dan tapes (15 ips analog) and transferred them to digital format so that they would not deteriorate any further. This was in anticipation of catalog re-release in the new Compact Disc format. The first two albums to be released on CD were Aja and Gaucho. I listened to the CDs and they were fine.

Mobile Fidelity is licensed to produce gold plated CDs of Aja and Gaucho. They called me up to ask me if I liked the sound of their pressings. I listened to them and compared them to the CDs from MCA. I figured that the only difference I would hear would be the difference between the gold plating and the aluminum plating on the stock CD. I was shocked! They sounded completely different. The gold ones sounded worse. The gold Gaucho CD was even a different speed, about a quarter tone sharper than the original CD from MCA.

A writer I know called me to ask if I heard any difference between the stock CDs and the gold CDs. I told him what I found. He said that he didn't hear any difference. The lightbulb went on in my thought balloon! The stock CDs that I had were produced seven years ago, and the ones that my friend used were just purchased at Tower Records. I jumped in my car and zipped over to the nearest record store and purchased new copies of the CDs in question. He was right, the new stock CDs sounded exactly like the gold CDs, including the pitch shift on the Gaucho CD.

The time we spent transferring all of the original masters was wasted. The record company in their infinite wisdom decided that when they needed new 1630 CD masters to send to the CD plant, that it would be better to use the EQ'd analog copy that had been sitting around for fifteen years instead of the digital tapes that we supplied to them nine years ago for just this purpose. And on top of everything else, they couldn't even make sure that the analog machine that played back the Gaucho tape was going the right speed.

I guess this is all just a part of a grander scheme - make all of the CDs sound worse and worse until we can't tell the difference between Compact Discs and the new Digital Compact Cassette that the record companies are pushing. I went to my storage locker and found all of my old vinyl LPs. I haven't thrown my turntable away yet either. Maybe the clicks and pops aren't quite so bad after all.
"

[Rob Babcock]

I think the pricing is d/t the fact that MFSL folded some years back.  The collectors assumed there'd be no more and the prices reflect that.  Now I think they're back in business, but I don't recall seeing any new products in the store yet.

[pretzel_logic]

Great post,

I gave up on CD's about a year ago after having wasted many dollars trying to replace my vinyl collection, which I'm glad I kept BTW.  I too became tired of the pops and clicks associated with vinyl and the convenience of CD's could have been a great thing, unfortunately the record companies botched it.  

I have heard a few good CD's, wonder what they would sound like in a very good player, but almost all of my vinyl sounds much better than CD's.  No listener fatigue, better dynamics overall, and the music is played back the way it was intended.  I have since purchased a very good table, VPI Scout, built a very good phono stage, Hagtech Cornet, and couldn't be happier with the sound in my listening room.  

I now wonder, if the mixers, engineers, and record companies had done their homework, would CD's sound as good as the original vinyl or tape?  My money is now being spent in used record stores and thrift shops, as well as on the reissues.  The record companies have lost my business. They will stay around as they are fooling most of the people out there but eventually the word will get out.  No more CD's for me!

BTW, I have all the Dan on original ABC vinyl and it sounds wonderful.

Brian

[jqp]

I was going to buy a MFSL Gold CD of Aja from SecondSpin.com. I think it was $34. Decided to check other prices to see if this really was low. In my Google search I saw one for $30. I also found the article above. Now I am wondering if my "remastered" Aja is the "bad" version too. I will try to find out.

The record industry really seems to be in trouble in so many ways. I try to get most of my CDs used because of the outrageous prices and also since I will find that many of them will be only decent recocordings. I think CDs can sound as good as the best vinyl, but not enough do. It is truly sad that artists and engineers can work so hard to create great recordings only to have record companies ruin them because of ignorance arrogance andd greed  

[SWG255]

Hi,

The story of MFSL is interesting. i have several of their gold CDs bought back in the late 80's when they were still in business and i'm very happy with them, especially titles like Supertramp's "Crime of the Century". When they were good, they were very very good, to paraphrase the old saw. I particularly like them when they have real dynamic range. The Supertramp CD has some real quiet parts, it's not like modern commercial discs which seem to strive to have the sound levels right at 0 dB throughout the entire song (yuck!)

The down side of MFSL is that not all of their recordings, on CD or vinyl sound good. I remember several MFSL LPs which were really disappointing. There's long been speculation as to whether MFSL really would get the best 2-channel mixdown masters from the record companies to create their discs. I can't say whether they do or don't, but some of their titles didn't sound like they did.

Now that they're back in business and making hi-res discs (SACD) it will be interesting to hear what they release and how good those releases sound.

[jqp]

Hi,

There's long been speculation as to whether MFSL really would get the best 2-channel mixdown masters from the record companies to create their discs....

Well I think the article above pretty much answers that question. Even when they get the best masters they don't seem to want to give us the best masters.

[pretzel_logic]

Go over to the Audio Asylum and do a search, either in vinyl or music in general.  A lot of inmates own MFSL's and you should be able to find out which releases are the good ones.  

As far as the AJA MFSL vinyl goes mine doesn't come close to the sound of an original ABC issue.  I don't have anyon CD and don't plan on getting any.

Brian

[hifitommy]

i am glad i didnt buckle and buy any.  i DO have a couple of mofi LPs, abbey road from when mofi first came out, and yellow brick by elton, replaced my stolen copy, it was only $25 and is pretty good.  i should get that out and see if i hear any bad stuff.  

i also got dsotm when it came out on mofi, good but i hear people trashing it frequently.  

now i see no reason to get excited about mofi, sacd is a very transparent medium and we dont need to spend $30 for the mofis.  youre better off getting vinyl at that price, patricia barber for example.  

once again, my chance to slap jvc for the xrcd price ripoff.  its a big company using better electronics that should be used on ALL of their releases.  they could sell s shiPload of their reissues if they would price them sensiblyl.