How important is termination of speaker cable?

drphoto · « **on:** 25 Oct 2003, 02:22 am »

A year (or 2 maybe?) I bought some raw Kimber 8TC from PartsConnection during a sale and soldered on some copper spades. I've never been really happy with these, though they have a decent rep for a moderate price cable. (they sound harsh, and restrict the soundstage)

I starting to wonder if my termination may play some part. If, say I nicked some wires stripping insulation, didn't twist it together correctly, etc could cause degredation of the sound? I used Rat Shack silver solder btw.

Any tips on how to properly terminate multistrand type cables?

ABEX · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Oct 2003, 06:55 am »

The best termination is no termination from what I have observed along with the feedback I have read. Less is more in audio in some respects and I do believe that is what is encounterd with alot of wiring issues.

I use AQ termination for speaker cables. I think the Spades or anything you use will add an amount of coloration. IC's are prone to sound different with whatever you might use for termination. I have tried a few in the past months and I believe there is a synergy issue involved in getting the best sound from the cable or type of cable which you use.

As an experiment take a good Copper wire you like that can be used as an IC. Then take 3 different types of RCA's and see what you get in playback.
The results will be different with each RCA used. Pick the one your taste feel most confortable with.

It might be you are looking for more than what Kimber lower range of cable is able to produce for you in the way of results. Solid Core cables of that ga. are prone to lose some of their sonic traits with the length run you are using.

There are numerous things which might be hampering your results. Try no termination for one. Also have you reterminated them after having them for a period of time?

Good luck!

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Oct 2003, 11:53 am »

Quote from: ABEX

I use AQ termination for speaker cables. ......

Do you remember WHERE you got your AQ???? I have some AQ Midnight
that I've shortened now that the amp is in middle of speakers. I was thinking AQ spades (to match the spades I've not removed) would look good and maybe help retain resale value. HCM audio had decent prices

Monolith · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Oct 2003, 12:53 pm »

Quote from: drphoto

I starting to wonder if my termination may play some part. If, say I nicked some wires stripping insulation, didn't twist it together correctly, etc could cause degredation of the sound? I used Rat Shack silver solder btw.

Any tips on how to properly terminate multistrand type cables?

In order of sonic "goodness:"

1. No termination (requires cleaning of bare ends for maintenance)
2. Gas tight crimping of terminals
3. Soldering (if you must, then solder but don't use Radio Shack solder)

Any nicks, cuts, broken wires can affect the termination and the sound. Same with any corrosion, etc. (except for silver oxide). Don't both crimp and solder a connection.

drphoto · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Oct 2003, 03:47 pm »

Thanks for the replies.

What about bring the strands together? Should I try to twist them, or just lay them side by side and crimp on the spade. (8TC is uses 8 stranded conductors per leg in a braided configuration)

I twisted, crimped and soldered, which appears to have been a mistake.

Monolith · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 Oct 2003, 04:09 pm »

Quote from: drphoto

What about bring the strands together? Should I try to twist them, or just lay them side by side and crimp on the spade. (8TC is uses 8 stranded conductors per leg in a braided configuration)

Ideally, you want to "weld" the metals together by using pressure, "gas tight." This prevents oxidation (air) from interfering with the connection. I am not familiar with terminating this particular type of cable. You might try doing a search in AA Cable Asylum. Generally, I twist wires together when I need them to stay together to get them into a connector. If they fit without twisting, I may or may not twist them together. But, not being familiar with your cable, I'm not sure if this applies. It sounds like you are bringing together several pairs of separately insulated wires.

Quote

I twisted, crimped and soldered, which appears to have been a mistake.

As always, you will find people with other opinions whether this is okay or not. The idea is to keep oxidation from occurring at the joint. So, if a gas tight weld is not possible, then applying solder will also keep out the air from the joint, preventing oxidation. Solder, in and of itself, is not desirable. It is used to hold things together and prevent oxidation. Generally, always try to have a good mechanical connection before soldering anything.

I would say that the Radio Shack solder is the culprit behind the sound effects you are hearing (not so much the fact that you used solder, but the quality of the solder).

Experiment if you are able and see if you can tell any differences with different terminations.

Hank · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 Oct 2003, 05:54 pm »

Quote

Solder, in and of itself, is not desirable. It is used to hold things together and prevent oxidation. Generally, always try to have a good mechanical connection before soldering anything.

Solder is used in electronic assembly precisley because it is desirable, and that's because it is extremely electrically conductive and can be flowed over irregular shapes. It is not used to hold things together, and as your second sentence notes, soldered connections should always have a strong, intimate mechanical connection before application of solder. Solder with a small silver contect is best, even RS, which I've used for years. Audiophile DIY-ers will recommend WBT and Cardas silver solder for instance. Didn't mean to argue, just posted from experience

ABEX · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Oct 2003, 10:33 pm »

Tonto--Yes HCM had the best prices I found for Terminators. I did speak to AQ Direct in order to get a discount when buying in bulk which I might do next year unless I implement my own designs.

I do not use their RCA's though. Have you ever tried them.If so what results and which ones.

For RCA's I use Eichmann's and SLVR's for an economical Silver RCA rather than use the Eich Silvers which are real pricey if you ask me.

Have tried a few HG's which I found to be ok.Their new Silver RCA's are expensive,but I'd like to see a shootout involving the Eichmann Silvers ,them and WBT's which I have not heard to many good things about.

I tried Dayton WBT knockoffs and HG Golds for economical RCA's.I found the HG Golds better.

ABEX

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Oct 2003, 11:22 pm »

Quote from: ABEX

Tonto--Yes HCM had the best prices I found for Terminators. I did speak to AQ Direct in order to get a discount when buying in bulk which I might do next year unless I implement my own designs.

Since posting, I also found the AQ spades on Michael Percy's site: two levels of quality, one for $.75 each, another (P8M for 8 gauge wire) for $3.50 each).
I've never DIY'ed with the AQ RCA's, but have them on my prefinished IC's.

Thanks,
TY

_scotty_ · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Oct 2003, 04:43 am »

Crimping spades works for me. Here is the RCA plug I use. Part no. 17PP050, http://www.mouser.com/It has a hollow center pin and is low mass like the Eichmann, but more durable with better ground contact. It only costs' $0.12 per 100. Be sure to check the PDF data sheet for a detailed picture. Don't laugh until you try them. If you like the Eichmann,
but feel the bass needs to be better this might be what you want.

ABEX · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 Oct 2003, 03:25 am »

Scotty:
What is the manfs. name of the RCA from Mouser? I looked doing a search for RCA connectors ,but to many come up.

Need the manufactures name.

Thx

_scotty_ · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Oct 2003, 03:43 am »

Sorry ABEX,the link did not go where I thought it would. Do a search on the part no. 17PP050, then click on the PDF sheet. My bad.

ABEX · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Oct 2003, 03:41 pm »

Scotty:
Thx,I will order some after I find something else from them I want to try.
Use this link for the post:It might work.
http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=search.processsearchb

I probably will try the Panny reciever. I am at the point of convincing myself to do so at the moment. If Clyde relegated the EAR to Bass amp use it cannot be a bad unit to use thatts for certain.

I think the thing's that convinced me are:
It uses the TI Chipset.
Straight digital input without the need for converting back and forth.
Being able to minimise space use.

I will asking the pro's I know about what they think,but regardless I shall be buying the unit to tryout.

Later

_scotty_ · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Oct 2003, 06:09 pm »

ABEX, bear in mind that you are committing audiophile heresy
by even entertaining the thought of purchasing this thing. You may be burned at the stake. At the very least, your family may disown you.
Good Luck