I have heard BCD-1

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Sasha

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I have heard BCD-1
« on: 26 May 2008, 04:34 pm »
It would not make sense to try to convey something as personal as impressions of audio gear sound in audiophile terms, so I will not make an attempt at it.
It will suffice to say that BCD-1 excels in midrange tonal correctness and bass control.
I have not heard all the players out there, but heard a fair share, and I can say that BCD-1 represents best buy in quite a wide price range.
I am convinced that one would have to spend significantly higher amount of $ (measured in thousands, not hundreds) in order to get better performance.
BCD-1 is an eye opener because it helps you to put things into the right perspective, for this reason I would encourage anyone to hear it.
If looking for Redbook player in < 4K list price range (speculation), I could not think of anything else that would be better. Above this price range it may come to preferences and synergy, and again you may pick BCD-1.
So you got the idea I think, it is good way beyond its price tag.
Reason I auditioned it was that I was considering BDA-1, the problem was that BDA-1 was nowhere to be heard, no dealer had it or intended to stock it, so I thought I could get a sense of its performance by listening to BCD-1. Now I am in trouble, BCD-1 tells me to buy BDA-1, while the devil (or angel) on left shoulder tells me not to buy unheard  aa

KeithA

Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #1 on: 26 May 2008, 04:43 pm »
Personally, buying unheard in the area of, say, $10,000 to $15,000, is something I'd find hard to do, even when the reviews are great.

Buying unheard at about $1,995..................I wouldn't lose any sleep over it :wink: I had one pre-ordered but cancelled it last week (in the interim, anyway) as I am currently playing out another angle. But if this doesn't pan out by the late fall, I'd have no problem reordering the BDA-1 unheard at MSRP $1,995.

Keith

James Tanner

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Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #2 on: 26 May 2008, 05:02 pm »
Yes it is going to be an interesting comparison between the BCD-1 on it's own and the BDA-1.

The orignal idea with the BDA-1 was to provide the peformance level offered by the BCD-1 but for customers with multiple digital sources.

At home I have the BCD-1 and the BDA-1 setup so that I can switch between the BCD-1 as a complete CD Player vs the BCD-1 COAX or AES EBU out to the DBA-1 (using the BCD-1 as a transport only).

I have had a few people try and pick which is which - so far no one can! Some say they think they can but when it's a blind test so far no consistency.

james
« Last Edit: 26 May 2008, 05:32 pm by James Tanner »

vegasdave

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Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #3 on: 27 May 2008, 05:01 am »
Does the upsampling in the BDA-1 make a difference?

James Tanner

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Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #4 on: 27 May 2008, 12:35 pm »
Does the upsampling in the BDA-1 make a difference?

Hi Dave,

One of the neat features of our External DAC is that you can turn the 'upsampling' off and on while your listening.

james

smerlas

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Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #5 on: 27 May 2008, 11:59 pm »
With Bryston and the consistency of the reviews the BCD1 has been enjoying, both from the Industry and it's owners, don't be afraid to purchase these products unheard.  (and this from an owner who purchased unheard ............. even though he said he never would ............ )

I just added the BCD1 to my system and see the BDA1 as a possible future addition if I find myself utilizing other digital sources or if the "CD" decreases in popularity in particular with the amount of material being released on CD.  Although you hear this currently being discussed I hope we do not see this happen.  I am still recovering from my investment over the years in vinyl ......... I don't want to do that again .............. especially having just purchased the BCD1.

 8)

Phil A

Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #6 on: 28 May 2008, 12:57 am »
I think CD will be around for a few years.  There will be an increasing no. of digital options and perhaps some decrease in physical media but I'd think you could still make a CD from something you've bought and downloaded.  I have my BCD-1 since around August.  I thought very briefly about waiting for the Bryston DAC but I already had an outboard DAC, which the BCD-1 replaced in the main system.  The DAC now is in the bedroom system and I might move it to the basement system.  Other than transport comparison purposes or if one stores music on a hard drive, I didn't personally see a need for a DAC for me.  My DAC had a record output loop and for a bit I used it to output to the home CD recorder for the car.  With my Zune and PC, it is easier at this point to make music for the car w/o the CD recorder.  I almost always have a backlog of music to listen to with new stuff coming out and often I can't even get to critically listen to things I've not had a chance to play on the BCD-1 that I've had for a bit.  If I want just background music, I have a CD/SACD changer and the Zune and the means to pipe it around.  I guess I'm also still attached to the physical media.  I'll probably also end up with a PS3 (with a hard drive_ in the secondary basement system and perhaps at some distant point down the road I'll change my mind but I don't see that happening any time in the next several years.

KeithA

Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #7 on: 28 May 2008, 03:32 am »
I agree with Phil A, I see the CD having some legs left yet. When the CD competed with the the LP (from a convenience perspective) it easily started winning out as it was portable and less maintenance. However, even as dowloads and such become more the norm, the CD can be easily morphed into the new format.

What I mean is that I have been considering a new CD player for several years now (about 4 years, to be exact). However, I never really got around to it as my other hobbies kept me from buying audio stuff and well, having 2 kids in the last 4 years really cut down on the time I chose to play with the audio stuff. But then in December last year, I stumbled onto the Squeezebox and gave it a try. I love it. I recently upgraded to the Squeezebox Duet and use it 100% of the time streaming uncompressed PCM files from my 1,200 CDs stored on a 1 terrabyte hard drive on my PC. I still buy CDs, but I buy them as a 'library item' as I rip it to my computer and then store it for if I ever need it in the future to rip again. I still would want to have a backup of the 1 terrabyte drive of music in case something goes wrong, but the CD copies are still there as a final non-volatile backup if something ever goes drastically wrong with the hard drives.

So, the reason why I had originally ordered the BDA-1 vs the BCD-1 was that the CD player did not have the 'digital in' to accomodate the Squeezebox.  I really never see myself as having numerous inputs to a DAC, but a couple would always be possible (a cd player and a network player). Even though I wouldn't use a cd player a lot, if for some reason you wanted to play a cd (someone loans you a cd or brings one over to hear) and you didn't want to take the time to rip it to the computer, etc, the option is there to play the CD through the Bryston DAC but in my case, the main source of the Squeezebox is also easily accomodated.

The problem with buying the BCD-1 and then later on buying the BDA-1 if your digtal sources expanded, even though not the end of the world, is that you'd be basically buying the same DAC twice. So, for me a BCD-1 with another digital input would be the answer or the BDA-1 where I could use my existing cd player as a transport and hook in the Squeezebox and get the benefits of the Bryston DAC on more than one source.

So, even though I still buy CDs and will keep buying them for the reasons above, I haven't listened to a CD in my CD player as a 'source' for the music in over 6 months. So, all of the options I'm looking at now from a digital perspective as an upgrade need to be able to at least accept 2 sources. I'm still somewhat open to a CD player, but it will need to have a digital in.

Keith




b5pt9

Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #8 on: 28 May 2008, 05:20 pm »
So would a BDA-1 or BCD-1 provide a noticeable improvement over my existing setup?  I'm using my Denon 3910 coax digital output to feed the internal DAC in the SP1.7 and it sounds pretty good to me.

smerlas

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Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #9 on: 29 May 2008, 12:13 am »
Yeah Keith I agree purchasing the BCD and then the BDA is in essence purchasing the D/A converter twice.  However the BDA allows for approximately 6 different digital inputs if I recall correctly from the data sheet of the features for the BDA.  Not that I see more than two, maybe three (music server, Digital from TV cable box, DVD player).  But if I purchased a PB26 with the DAC option I would only have two selectable digital sources.  So although it does the same thing from a D/A standpoint the DBA would provide greater flexability down the road.  So I opted for the transport D/A converter all in one chassis with a potential redundancy of the BDA in the future.

And based on the performance of the BCD it was money wisely spent.

Maybe having been through the culture of buying "albums", physical CD's appeal to me.  The album covers, liner notes, lyrics, etc.  can not be replicated on a music library.

vegasdave

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Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #10 on: 29 May 2008, 12:59 am »
Does the upsampling in the BDA-1 make a difference?

Hi Dave,

One of the neat features of our External DAC is that you can turn the 'upsampling' off and on while your listening.

james


I see. That's very cool. So, one can tell whether the sound improves or not. But, in your experience does the sound improve with the upsampling turned on?

James Tanner

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Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #11 on: 29 May 2008, 01:11 am »
Does the upsampling in the BDA-1 make a difference?

Hi Dave,

One of the neat features of our External DAC is that you can turn the 'upsampling' off and on while your listening.

james


I see. That's very cool. So, one can tell whether the sound improves or not. But, in your experience does the sound improve with the upsampling turned on?

Hi Dave,

I was afraid you would ask me that.  You know I am not sure yet.  On some recordings I think the bass and the space around instruments improves (with upsample on) but other times I am not so sure.

There is a theory out there (mainly popular in the English press) that not screwing with the 'native' sampling rate is the better approach. In other words upsampling has issues of it's own - namely jitter problems. I am going to be very interested in the feedback from our customers on this one.

james

vegasdave

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Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #12 on: 29 May 2008, 02:13 am »
I see, James. Thanks for reporting your findings thus far...I am interested in the feedback from my fellow customers as well. 8)

rancew

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Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #13 on: 1 Jun 2008, 05:29 pm »
I've had a BCD-1 for about 3 weeks now, and have spent a considerable amount of time listening. 

My system consists of the following:
-Dedicated music room with ASC IsoWall construction, multiple ASC Tube Traps and ASC Sound Planks.
-Bryston BCD-1-->Bryston BP 26 MC-->Bryston 4B SST C-series-->Focal Electra 1027 Be and B&W 803D loudspeakers.  Cabling is Luminous Audio Synchestra Signature interconnects and Synchestra Signature speaker cables. 
(-I also have an analog rig and have recently been conducting my own experiment on pros and cons of vinyl vs. digital with the "resurgence" and seeming popularity of analog as of late.  I may post on that in the thread on media servers.)

I don't pretend to be an audio expert, have never written a review, and haven't heard many megabuck (think >$30K) systems or uber digital players/separates (say in the >$5K range).  Like most of us here, I'm just a guy who loves good music played through a good system that gets it right most of the time, a long-time audiophile/listener who has done alot of analysis and pondering as to what constitutes "good sound" to my ears.

Right out of the box, the sound was initially cold, sterile and edgy.  I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Bryston gear gets considerable burn in time at the factory, so my first reaction was “oh no – this is it?!”.  By 40-50 hours, it was a completely different story.  (Perhaps this unit hadn’t been burned in, or maybe that’s just done on the amps.)  Anyway…

To me the BCD-1 is an amazing piece of equipment.  It seems to possess virtually every quality I've been looking for in digital playback.  Here's my synopsis:
-Tonal balance:  Superb.  Bass is extended and authoritative (it's a Bryston...) with a good balance, being articulate and punchy but with just enough boom.  Highs are quite extended also - not rolled off like some players do seemingly in an effort to be "forgiving" - but also smooth; there's no harshness or excessive sibilance in my system despite the highs being very clean and extended.  The midrange/presence region is just about right - neither too forward/bloomy/glaring - which quickly gets fatiguing (especially with rock/pop recordings), nor too recessed - which is plain uninvolving.
-Dynamics:  Excellent.  Transients are authoritative all along the frequency spectrum.  Overall the sound is lively, with lots of energy - which to me is extremely important when it comes to music being presented in an engaging manner.
-Soundstage:  Very good.  Depth of soundstage/three-dimensionality is great.  On many of my discs music seems to be come straight back to the side of the listening position - very cool!  Width and height of soundstage are about average.  (I've had at least one CDP with a much bigger soundstage through the exact same equipment, so I know my system is otherwise capable of this.)  If you treasure a great big soundstage and would call lack of a massively wide/tall soundstage a negative - than this would the only real drawback of this unit as far as I can tell. 
-Detail:  Impressive.  It seems to deliver exactly what most of us crave - extreme accuracy, giving loads of detail without being hyper-detailed/etched/analytical to the point of being unnatural and fatiguing.
-Pace, rhythm, and timing ("PRAT"):  This one's harder to quantify or describe, but I get a great foot-tapping/physical reaction with plenty of "flow" and good sense of rhythm from the music.
-Overall perspective:  Outstanding.  The presentation is neither too forward nor too laid back and point of delivery neither too close nor too far away.  In terms of what I refer to as "texture", I would call it about dead neutral - that is, neither tending towards the dry/brittle/cold/analytical side, nor towards the overly warm/lush/rounded/forgiving side.  (I've read virtually every review of the BCD-1 that's been published thus far.  A couple of reviewers have hinted that the BCD-1 may be a bit on the dry or edgy side of neutral.  I believe this has to do with either their associated equipment or personal taste.  Having experimented with the BP 26/4B SST combination in conjunction with other components I'm very familiar with, I feel the Bryston gear in general is about as close to neutral as you can get.  The BCD-1 is cut from the same cloth.  Throw in another piece of equipment that leans one way or the other and the whole system will take on that character.  If your taste runs towards sound that is lush, warm, rounded, "tubey", etc., then you might characterize the BCD-1 as being overly cool, dry or analytical and this player may not do it for you.  For my taste, it's just about right.)
But what really makes the BCD-1 special in my view is it's ability to do all of the above and then go a step further:  to present music with multiple instruments or voices (as most recorded music has) with an incredible ability to separate and keep everything distinct in a three dimensional soundstage - just as it would be heard in a live performance - while at the same time maintaining overall coherence, with the parts always fitting together to make an integrated whole.  From the small synopsis of the BCD-1 where it was given a Golden Ear Award in the latest issue of 'The Absolute Sound', this seems to be what Alan Taffel has zeroed in on as well in his upcoming Absolute Sound review of the BCD-1.
-Musicality:  Combining all of the above into overall musical satisfaction, the BCD-1 scores a solid A+ here as far as I'm concerned.

The sound I'm getting in my room is truly rivetting.  Given that this is a direct reflection of the Bryston DAC, then my next destination is a sever/hard disk drive feeding a BDA-1...

bummrush

Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #14 on: 1 Jun 2008, 06:56 pm »
I think cd will be for quite awhile also,so its nice to have the players.

vegasdave

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Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #15 on: 5 Jun 2008, 08:53 am »
I think Bryston should make a turntable.

predrag

Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #16 on: 5 Jun 2008, 09:10 am »
@vegasdave

That´s what I think as well!

James, hope you read this! :lol:

James Tanner

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Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #17 on: 5 Jun 2008, 09:39 am »
@vegasdave

That´s what I think as well!

James, hope you read this! :lol:

That's funny - with the success of our Phono stage (you will be seeing some great reviews on them soon) I was thinking a turntable would be a great idea. We would probably have to align ourselves with a quality manufacturer already doing turntables and build on their basic designs.

james

predrag

Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #18 on: 5 Jun 2008, 09:49 am »
@vegasdave

That´s what I think as well!

James, hope you read this! :lol:

That's funny - with the success of our Phono stage (you will be seeing some great reviews on them soon) I was thinking a turntable would be a great idea. We would probably have to align ourselves with a quality manufacturer already doing turntables and build on their basic designs.

james


James,

By mentioning Phono stage you meant BP 1.5?
I think we´re getting offtopic and this could be a new topic!
Anyway there´s a big questionmark above my head following your last sentence. :thumb:

James Tanner

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Re: I have heard BCD-1
« Reply #19 on: 5 Jun 2008, 10:21 am »
@vegasdave

That´s what I think as well!

James, hope you read this! :lol:

That's funny - with the success of our Phono stage (you will be seeing some great reviews on them soon) I was thinking a turntable would be a great idea. We would probably have to align ourselves with a quality manufacturer already doing turntables and build on their basic designs.

james


James,

By mentioning Phono stage you meant BP 1.5?
I think we´re getting offtopic and this could be a new topic!
Anyway there´s a big questionmark above my head following your last sentence. :thumb:

Hi,

Yes the BP1.5 and the Phono stages in the BP26 and the Integrated are superb.  Our Phono stages (MM and MC) are very unique in that the RIAA stage is done in two parts.  There's a lot of technical babble-gabble but the results is a phono stage that tracks the RIAA curve within millibels of accuracy rather than decibels.

In the days of old the broadcast industry required extremely accurate phono stages for their LP broadcasts and the original Bryston Phono stages were developed with that accuracy in mind and we have since refined it further over the years.

Question mark?

james