[ebag4]

Hello:
I am considering building a set of Demetri cabinets with Hemp 8" drivers.  I would like to get some feedback from those that have heard the Demetri/Hemp combo or the Audiomagnes Lotus.  If you have heard the Hemp Drivers in OB with or without bass support and could compare that would be beneficial as well.

Thanks,
Ed

[oracle309]

I built  JE Labs OB (actually the  Stereo Sound "Tube Kingdom", Volume 3, 1996, design) for use with some salvaged speakers and have tried the Hemp Acoustics (not Omega) FR8c drivers. They work wonderfully. I can't say how they would fare in any other OB. In the JE Labs "style" OB they sound completely box-less and have usable output into the mid 40 Hz range (compared to a Polk 10" sub..). I have modified the JE Labs slightly, and this may contribute to the sound I am getting from these.

I have also built the Demetris for use with the same drivers, using Baltic Birch ply for the enclosures (if you go to the trouble of making enclosure, please don't use MDF). With BSC circuit they go perhaps a little deeper. They are very good, but have a "slight" and I do mean slight box sound....Once you experience what a good OB system can do for you it is tough going back.

The two speakers serve two different users really. If practical considerations must be given to the amount of space that the speakers require, then the Demetris are the only choice. They are large, but do not seem to dominate the room the way that the JE Labs style OB does. The JE Labs style OB are more open, more dynamic--think of it like a good planar or electrostatic with good bass. The bass is there, but it has no physical impact the way a box enclosure does. I am not saying that they are truly in the league of the greats, like ESL57s , etc, but what they do , they do in a very convincing manner. Regardless of whether  125 watts/.ch of McCormack power amp, 30/ch watts of tube power, or 10 watts /chof T-amp power neither fails to impress -- both make me want to listen more.

[ebag4]

Thanks for the feedback Oracle309.  I have been running my Hemp drivers in OB with some Hawthorne Augies picking up the bottom.  These sound good but I am left with the feeling that I am not hearing everything these drivers have to offer.  It seems counterintuitive to me but I am about to build a box to put them in.  With my last 5 or 6 speakers I have gone OB and thought I had sworn off boxes, but curiosity has the best of me so I will build another box.  I am doing what I can to eliminate any of the box nasties, only building them and listening will tell me if I have succeeded.  Wish me luck.

Best,
Ed

[oracle309]

The Demetris are quite an easy build. And unless you are being quite critical, they don't give much up to OBs.
And you do gain a little bass as well.

[chrisby]

The Demetris are quite an easy build. And unless you are being quite critical, they don't give much up to OBs.
And you do gain a little bass as well.

even with "just" a Fostex FE167E (modified if you like  ), these certainly kick serious butt for a single 6" driver. 

the baby sister of this design (Mileva - with FE127E or similar) is also quite a great little performer, with even higher WAF

 

[oracle309]

long time , no hear....

Yes of course, the Milevas are excellent too.Trying my hand on other forums as too many of the same Q's get posted on the other one.

Of three designs possible: The "JE Labs" style OBs, the Demetris and the Milevas, I agree, the Milevas have the highest SOAF.
And The Demetris are perhaps a best compromise between an open sound and reasonable bass output.

Finally have some finish on the Demetris, now just gotta put some on the OBs.

[chrisby]

long time , no hear....

Yes of course, the Milevas are excellent too.Trying my hand on other forums as too many of the same Q's get posted on the other one.

Of three designs possible: The "JE Labs" style OBs, the Demetris and the Milevas, I agree, the Milevas have the highest SOAF.
And The Demetris are perhaps a best compromise between an open sound and reasonable bass output.

Finally have some finish on the Demetris, now just gotta put some on the OBs.

Stewie, was that you? 

I didn't even notice you tag line, so the moniker eluded me.  Is that the serial number of a turntable?

[oracle309]

Oracle 309 = Oracle Alex Mkll, SME 309

given up on "the other site" for a bit. Too many of the same, " I want an easy project, I want to build something.".. seems FAQs would be the way to go. Thought I'd check out the Circles for a while (haven't been here for a bit). Also thought I'd jump over to AA and AK as well.

Don't ya recognize my ugly mug in my Avatar? (it's me , really)?


Thought I'd shake things up at Casa d' Bobiak , regarding the last weekend of August. Dave tells me you are "indisposed" most of the weekend. I may be coming out solo or with Mike, my audio partner in tow...

Actually finally have some clear Poly on the BB enclosures, I really like the look.

bag4
now an interesting build might be FE167 sized Onken or a floor standing Onken if Dave has a design done for them. I keep coming back to the "Fonkens" as a reference  though. FE127s never sounded so good, and the ones I listened to (for about a month) were using stock, non-modified drivers. I could easily live with these 14" X 9" X 11 3/4" speakers as an only pair--I found they did everything well, when used with T-amp. They will work equally well with tubes. The mini-Onkens using the CSS FR125S drivers would be best for heavily dampened Solid State amplifiers.

[ebag4]

Oracle309:
I was looking at the 127 Fonkens as well as the Fostex F120A when a pair of Louis' Hemp drivers came up for sale, so I picked those up.  I have a box that I am working on now, I will see how it sounds, if I don't like it I may try the Demetri.

Ed

[oracle309]

ebag4:

my comments are for the Hemp Acoustics FR8c, not the Omega drivers. I have no personal experience with them, so please ignore all comments regarding the sound quality. The Lotus Acoustics use Hemp Acoustics drivers, not Omegas or Tone Tubbys, therefore their drivers may not work directly as a drop in for the Hemp Acoustic FR8c.

This is not intended to open up old wounds, rather just to point out that the drivers and their required enclosures are different, although apparently Omega and Tone Tubby now work together. Nor is this a comment of their quality, nor am I trying to create "suspicion" of inferiority to the Hemp Acoustics. I simply have no experience with the Tone Tubbys or Omega drivers, and I know for a fact that the Lotus Acoustic speakers use Hemp Acoustics drivers.

My comments about the Fonkens using FE127 drivers and The Milevas can be taken for what they are worth. As I stated, regardless, I jeep coming back to the Fonkens as  my reference---perhaps the least box-sounding box speaker I have ever heard.

stew

[ebag4]

No problem Oracle309, I was aware you were taling about the FR8c driver.  I contacted Planet10 Dave about using the Demetri with the Omega driver, he stated that without knowing the full specs of the driver, that the Demetri was probably my best shot (as opposed to one of the "Spawn" cabinets).  Apparently the Demetri is somewhat forgiving when it comes to driver selection.  It is a moot point at this time because I am building a cabinet of my own design.  I will hopefully be listening to it this time next week.

Best,
Ed

[chrisby]

Stu - I'll be "indisposed" only for the Saturday 23rd (due to a family wedding)  - as you know this event generally stretches to either side of the nominal date.

So that's your passport photo?  - guaranteed to make anyone look their worst


Ed  - within the next week or so we'll soon have a pair of prototype F120A Fonken-steins operating, to be followed soon by FX120 which will fit the same box. 

don't be shy sharing details of your own design
 
 

[jrebman]

Fonkenstein -- I like that, and really, I hope I love them .  Yes Ed, these are my babies and I can't wait to hear them.  With the FX-120 also being able to work in this cabinet, you're looking at something like half the money for the drivers, so maybe more people will want to go this route.  Probably less availability issues as well.

These are going to be a bit bigger than the standard Fonken, but I'll let Chris devulge any details he cares to as I don't know how much of this is still under wraps.

Stew, not exactly sure who you are, but welcome!  Maybe our paths have crossed on diyaudio and I haven't made the connection yet.

Ed, how're the speakers coming?  Are these going to be Dmetri inspired -- wide and shallow?

-- Jim

[ebag4]

Hi Jim, I am looking forward to your feedback on the "Fonkensteins".  My new speakers are coming along rather slowly due to summer chores and traveling for work, but I have made some progress.  These are not anything like the Dimetris although I may still end up building a pair of those just to try them.

BTW, I just read your emails this morning, glad you found the cord.

Best,
Ed

[chrisby]

Fonkenstein -- I like that, and really, I hope I love them .  Yes Ed, these are my babies and I can't wait to hear them.  With the FX-120 also being able to work in this cabinet, you're looking at something like half the money for the drivers, so maybe more people will want to go this route.  Probably less availability issues as well.

These are going to be a bit bigger than the standard Fonken, but I'll let Chris devulge any details he cares to as I don't know how much of this is still under wraps.

Stew, not exactly sure who you are, but welcome!  Maybe our paths have crossed on diyaudio and I haven't made the connection yet.

Ed, how're the speakers coming?  Are these going to be Dmetri inspired -- wide and shallow?

-- Jim

think the classic Gene Wilder line from " Young Frankenstein"  - that's Fronken-steen"

Not much secrecy to the project - the driver's parameters require a slightly larger volume, in this case to maintain the narrow front baffle width with chamfered sides, mostly by increasing height.  With all 15mm BB construction and a little additional lateral bracing, the cabinets are rather inert

I got them running yesterday afternoon,and had a brief listen - both Dave  & I are in the final stages* of some minor home reno's, so the measuring and official listening session will likely be one evening this week.   

First impression is that this is certainly cut from a finer grain of cloth than the FE series drivers.  Oh yes, the lower sensitivity than the FE127 is not academic, but 7watts from the little Wright Mono 7 amps is still  plenty for my little room and listening requirements.   Frank M will be stopping by in a couple of days with this Carina - so between that, the 300Bs, Paramour 2A3's and Jolida EL34 (triode mode), we'll have a fair range of power levels to play with. Too bad there isn't a 100W solid state amp really put them through their paces.     


* well, actually for any familiar with casa Dlugos, it's much more of a work in progress than my own, so it's probably early (or wishful thinking) to state "final stages"    aa

[jrebman]

Thanks Chris -- how do you like those Wright monos?  Those are also on my short list of possible amps for these.  I assume these are the ones with Bud's OPTs?

Sounds like a good range of amps there so very much looking forward to the impressions from you folks.

-- Jim

[TerryO]

but 7watts from the little Wright Mono 7 amps is still  plenty for my little room and listening requirements.   Frank M will be stopping by in a couple of days with this Carina - so between that, the 300Bs, Paramour 2A3's and Jolida EL34 (triode mode), we'll have a fair range of power levels to play with. Too bad there isn't a 100W solid state amp really put them through their paces.     


* well, actually for any familiar with casa Dlugos, it's much more of a work in progress than my own, so it's probably early (or wishful thinking) to state "final stages"    aa

Chris,

Are those the amps from VSAC? I guess George was twisting your arm.

Best Regards,
TerryO

[chrisby]

but 7watts from the little Wright Mono 7 amps is still  plenty for my little room and listening requirements.   Frank M will be stopping by in a couple of days with this Carina - so between that, the 300Bs, Paramour 2A3's and Jolida EL34 (triode mode), we'll have a fair range of power levels to play with. Too bad there isn't a 100W solid state amp really put them through their paces.     


* well, actually for any familiar with casa Dlugos, it's much more of a work in progress than my own, so it's probably early (or wishful thinking) to state "final stages"    aa

Chris,

Are those the amps from VSAC? I guess George was twisting your arm.

Best Regards,
TerryO

well, that went both ways - after 3 days of listening to the combination of the 300B's and the Bamboo Fonken FE127s, we each   left the show with different products than we brought.  As it turns out, the speakers are now on long term loan to Bud Purvine - so it goes full circle.

 

[chrisby]

Thanks Chris -- how do you like those Wright monos?  Those are also on my short list of possible amps for these.  I assume these are the ones with Bud's OPTs?

Sounds like a good range of amps there so very much looking forward to the impressions from you folks.

-- Jim

that's right, Jim - a bit of the Purvinator at both ends of the system -output iron and polka-dots

edit:

I realize that's not an answer to your real question - I like them quite a lot.  These are quite a departure from any 300B-SE amp I've heard yet (including some MF-ingly expensive retail units with Silver Secondary output transformers and copper chassis) .  To borrow from my friends at a local hi-fi shop - sort of like a 2A3 "with balls".  These are intimate, articulate and transparent without the lower midrange/mid-bass syrupy warmth that I'd previously heard in so many 300B designs that I'd come to take it as a characteristic of the device itself. 

Thanks to Eddie Vaughn for urging me to keep an open ear - "you'll know it when you hear it, my friend"  .  The first piece to shake me up regarding this tube was Allen Wright's DPA300B at VSAC2003 - it's just taken to hear a SE design I could justify.

Too bad that George's chassis/cosmetics are so pedestrian on the lower priced gear - even to the point of captive power cords.  OTOH, there's a certain charm to these teeny amps that more than balances the lack of garish audiophile grade bling or testerone fueled musculature .

[chrisby]

Jim,  before I post my impressions from last night's session, should this be split off to a new thread?

It's been quite a few posts since anyone has discussed the White Lotus speakers  Mike was out of stock of Hemp Acoustics drivers when I visited his shop a couple of weeks back, so while there was the opportunity to see in house progress on the precision construction of the bamboo cabinets, there were no functioning systems to play.