[alexone]

 hi, all!

 have a request...i am thinking about upgrading my ht-system with rearspeakers and i need the missing amps.

 i am using a 4 bsst for the front.

 question:

 -does it make sense to install 2 bsst amps for the rears and center because of the ''huge'' difference in power ??

 ( as we all know the 4b has 500wpc/4ohms, the 2b has 180wpc/4ohms...)

 -do i have to expect a ''different sounding'' ht ??

 any input is welcome.

 thanx

[Phil A]

It depends on how big the room is, how efficient the speakers are and how loud you like to listen.

[James Tanner]

 hi, all!

 have a request...i am thinking about upgrading my ht-system with rearspeakers and i need the missing amps.

 i am using a 4 bsst for the front.

 question:

 -does it make sense to install 2 bsst amps for the rears and center because of the ''huge'' difference in power ??

 ( as we all know the 4b has 500wpc/4ohms, the 2b has 180wpc/4ohms...)

 -do i have to expect a ''different sounding'' ht ??

 any input is welcome.

 thanx

Hi Alex,

All of the Bryston amps have the same "GAIN" so although the power range is different they will all 'track' equally even when mixed.  That's one of the reasons why it is really easy to biamp or triamp a passive speaker with different powered Bryston amps.

Generally the back and rear channels of a surround mix do not require the same power as the front LCR and Sub. A good rule of thumb is 1/2 power to the rears/backs.

In the days when SACD Surround and DVDA Audio Surround were being proposed the ideal setup was five identical speakers with 5 identical power amplifiers. Most movie sound tracks though do not mix a lot of level to the rears and backs.

james

[alexone]

 
 hi, phil!

 ok- my room is about 16 sqm ( 5m x 3.2m )- i know it is not the biggest...

 my frontspeakers are sonus faber cremona and the rears and centers will be -let's say- hometheater 'satellites'. they are smaller than

 usual shelfspeakers due to size of the room. the manual of them says 4....8 ohms. its a 2 way system and they can take 40 watts

 at 4 ohms and 70 watts at 8 ohms ( center is 80 watts/8 ohms).

 the cremonas are 90 db/w/m and 4 ohm speakers.

 i won't listen always too loud, 'cause i have neighbours...a certain volume is ok and that's it for me.


 al.

 

[alexone]

 hi, james!

 great! that's what i wanted to hear (read). i like the idea of the thumb rule.

 but do you think there would be too much difference in sound if the center is driven by a 2b?

[James Tanner]

 hi, james!

 great! that's what i wanted to hear (read). i like the idea of the thumb rule.

 but do you think there would be too much difference in sound if the center is driven by a 2b?

Hi Alex,

Usually you want the same power on the Center (maybe a PP 300) as it is a very important speaker in a 5.1 mix but if the Center speaker is smaller then the 1/2 power rule of thumb can apply.

james

[Phil A]

Don't forget that you will adjust the levels of the speakers in the processor.  Too little power can cause more of an issue vs. too much.  Also don't forget that Bryston has power pacs too.  I have a drop of overkill in the main system (the room is large though) only because I got a 6BSST first to drive the front 3 channels and then decided I was going to get the 14BSST and use it for the fronts so that now the 6BSST drives the center and rears.  As James noted it was a bit of a different issue with SACD and DVD-A and since I have a bunch of those I also did want something closer in power and went with 4 subs (Left, Right, Center and Surrounds) for bass management and to effectively gets closer to 5 full range speakers.  In the bedroom system, I have 3 Thiel SCS2s accross the front.  Even though the speakers are probably a hair below avg. efficiency the room is about avg. size.  The big issue is that I use a rec'r and I'm sure it wouldn't love the 4 ohm impedence (3 min.) so I use an old Adcom 555 on the left and right channels.  It is 325W in 4 ohms vs. the 100W or so the rec'r puts out and it is not a problem with levels.  It even sounds good on multi-channel SACD.

[splittailz]

James, does the 1/2 power also apply for the rears of a 5.2 system. I have previously always had equal power in the 5 speakers, and have really been contemplating the rear amp for my HT. I have always like the same power all around.

[James Tanner]

James, does the 1/2 power also apply for the rears of a 5.2 system. I have previously always had equal power in the 5 speakers, and have really been contemplating the rear amp for my HT. I have always like the same power all around.

Ideally the same power is considered the best but it really depends on the speaker setup. If the rears and backs are not as powerful as the fronts (which is usually the case) then having equal power at the rear/back does not buy you much. Think of it like an engine in a car - if the car is half the weight it is just as fast with a smaller engine as a bigger car with a bigger engine at twice the power.

In fact what I am seeing a lot of now is people using a big powerful amp on the Left/Right fronts for Stereo and less power to the Center and rears/backs. That way when your listening to just Stereo the one big amp is on and 2 speakers are filling the room with sound.  When you switch over to Surround now you have 5 or 7 speakers filling the same room so far less power per speaker is required.

james

[KeithA]

I'm in the market for a new amp as well. Mine will be to drive my fronts, though. I have a 6B now and I think, IMHO, that amp on my back speakers will be overkill

However, I bought my 6B back when the only SST designs were the 6B & 14B. At the time I figured I'd never want 500 to 600 WPC for my fronts , so I sent with the 6B. However, now I'm either going to get a 14B, 7Bs or one other non-Bryston amp , all of which run from 400WPC to 600WPC, for my fronts. I'd never sell the 6B, so moving it to the backs is logical.

That will put the 300WPC 6B on the rears and centre. These days, with multi-channel audio losing favour, I find that the back channels are merely for ancillary effects, etc., in movies or crowd noise on concerts. So, I personally don't see the need for large power since I don't think the material back there is demanding enough (I see bass requirements as the biggest factor for needing big power/current). I know it is room size and speaker sensitivity dependent, but I really can never see myself putting, say, 600WPC or more on back speakers (unless the room was massive).

Splittailz, I believe your are running 28Bs on the three front channels (I may be wrong there) and are looking at either at least a 14B for the rears. I notice from your post above that you usually like to have the same power all around. Are you considering 28Bs for the rears? Personally, I would never go above say a 4B on rears with the state of where the industry is today (as long as back channels are only bullets and hand clapping). Now, if it ever gets to the point that the demand of the material in all speakers is the same as the front two during normal 2 channel audio, then I could see myself going all out.

Heck, I can't even convince myself to look at the 28Bs for my fronts as it's overkill for my setup

Keith

[drummermitchell]

I have very good hunch that Splittailz will do the Bryston 28-B-SSTs all around because he can :drool:Thanks for the e-mails and chat we had today.

[KeithA]

I have very good hunch that Splittailz will do the Bryston 28-B-SSTs all around because he can :drool:Thanks for the e-mails and chat we had today.

I guess many of us can, if that means being able to afford them For me, there are other poisons as well...many other



But hey, each and everybody to their own. For me, though, I just really can't see the benefit of 28BSSTs on the back speakers in todays 5.1 environment. I'd have a hard time parting with $16,000 for that. But that's just me. But I guess at some point if you ever wanted a small bedroom system you could take the 28Bs from the backs to use there

Keith

[James Tanner]

Hi Keith,

I assume your a guitarist and your passion is collecting. Out of interest what would a quality vintage guitar sell for?

james

[KeithA]

Hi Keith,

I assume your a guitarist and your passion is collecting. Out of interest what would a quality vintage guitar sell for?

james

To call me a guitarist would be a stretch Just another of my part time hobbies.

But I don't really consider myself a collector, in the sense of what one would consider in today's world. I just buy them and play them.

But, if I may I think I see where you are going here, and you are absolutely correct. For example, a 1968 Fender telecaster, for example could fetch $30,000 to $40,000 in the right condition. Yep, that's your five 28BSSTs right there So, there really is no difference between the two, buying a $40,000 guitar and buying 5 amps at $40,000.

However, I also would never even consider a $40,000 guitar...or even a $10,000 guitar. But that's just me. There are people out there that just must have the $40,000 Telecaster...because it's 'Vintage'. But me, I'm just happy to buy the $1,500 new Telecaster (which I may buy today .)

One note though, vintage guitars are now like art. The people paying $40,000 for a vintage Telecaster or even $200,000 for a 1959 Les Paul  are not playing them. These are going into temperature controlled rooms or kept locked away intheir cases (for the most part) as trophies and conversation pieces. Nothing wrong with that, but that's the equivalent of buying the 5 28B SST and keeping them in the boxes, locked away and hoping they go up in value in the future.

The vintage guitar market has turned to an 'investment decision' as opposed to a 'consumption decision'. Not many people buying a $40,000 or $200,000 guitar would do so if they though they wouldn't make money off it in the future as it appreciates.

I view my guitars/amps and audio gear as stuff I will use every day.

Keith

[splittailz]

we all have our "vices" so to say. I have just decided to treat myself after putting my 3 girls thru masters degrees. I kept 1 of my old amps to try on the rears, 250 a channel proceed. I'll see what that sounds like first and go from there. Should have the 3 28's up and running next week. just need something temporally to set the bar so to speak against the 28's. The 1 thing in particular I saw in the reviews of the 28"s was their ability to sound good from the first watt, not needing to run them hard to sound good.thats also what I want in the rears, and why I am considering 2 more.

[splittailz]

almost forgot. really really nice guitars you have there.

[Phil A]

almost forgot. really really nice guitars you have there.

Yes and I like the 6.1 guitar set-up as well aa

[KeithA]

we all have our "vices" so to say. I have just decided to treat myself after putting my 3 girls thru masters degrees. I kept 1 of my old amps to try on the rears, 250 a channel proceed. I'll see what that sounds like first and go from there. Should have the 3 28's up and running next week. just need something temporally to set the bar so to speak against the 28's. The 1 thing in particular I saw in the reviews of the 28"s was their ability to sound good from the first watt, not needing to run them hard to sound good.thats also what I want in the rears, and why I am considering 2 more.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying there is something wrong with 5 28BSSTs Especially for the reasons you want them. I have a 2 and 4 year old, so my 'putting through college days' are still ahead Kudos to you for wanting to treat yourself.

Keith

[splittailz]

I think Keith needs to go to a 6.2 guitar setup. I personally like dual subs

[KeithA]

I think Keith needs to go to a 6.2 guitar setup. I personally like dual subs

You know...the more I look at that picture now (scary thing is that all my stuff is not in that pic).......the thought of buying 5 28BSSTs is starting to look pretty normal

The good news is that I still play the stereo better than I play guitar.

Keith