[Folsom]

Has anyone talked about CAT5e wire or additional coax? How about low voltage for lighting? 120/240 mains are not the only wiring in a house. I would wire separate circuits with switched outlets to shut off shit like TV's and other crap that are "on" even when they are "off", waiting for a command from a remote control. That is where energy is being wasted. Go around your house and count what is on when you think it's off. Don't forget the garage door opener, wireless phones and microwave ovens. They all add up the amperage and that is what you pay for. CONVIENCE!

Wayner

Do you suggest some kind of relays for this? Do you really think there is high enough grade ones to count on? Would you make the relay switch extremely quickly serviceable, etc? It seems slightly difficult to really do this. I do enjoy the idea of having a master control or mini control stations for disengaging things that are difficult to unplug, though. I suppose the plan could be just to switch breakers on or off for designated not used much stuff....

One lady I deal with would love to be as power efficient as possible.

I will point out things that use LED's might cost you $.02 a year. Digital stuff costs more. Non-digital toasters and the like cost nothing. I argue with my roommates about this stuff. They fear phantom loading on things that are on or off in all aspects. I took a toaster apart to show them that unless it is electronic there is no way in hell.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Most devices have two (or more) power consumption ratings. These ratings can be found on the stickers/labels on the back panel. One rating will be for "idle" (turned off), another will be for "in gear" (turned on, but not doing anything), and a third rating for "high gear" (max power outputs. cooling fans on high). Sure, the LED's don't take much, but the units are 'thinking', even when turned off, thereby consuming power. Flipping a breaker would kill them 100%. Also, another advantage to an open circuit at the breaker box, more isolation from lightning/massive power surges. Although my DirecTv receiver has to "acquire satellite" for about 10 minutes after it's lost power, so I would NOT shut the breaker off to one of these.

Good point about wiring for low voltage lighting. Good idea. I never thought about low voltage lighting anywhere but landscape accent lights.
Cool.

Bob

[Wayner]

120 volt outlets have a removable jumper link between the top and bottom outlet. It is common practice to hook the top outlet to a wall switch and the bottom outlet as would be normal. This would give you the ease of simply flippin' a switch to kill all power to a TV in idle.

Wayner

[tvyankee]

Wayner

Just because something is not required does not mean you should not use it. 10 gauge wire provides less capacatence and resistance and in return you will get  better sound. I'm not saying use it for lights and crap like that just for your audio/video circuits. oh yeah it doesn't cost that much more.  IMHO.

[Folsom]

How are you going to get less capacitance?

[Matt__P]

220...221...whatever it takes

[Bob in St. Louis]

   I love the "Mr. Mom" reference!! Very funny! 

[Martyn]

It's worth bearing in mind that not all "unnecessary" power consumption is bad. Consumed energy ends up as heat sooner or later, so that old, inefficient 'fridge is helping to heat your house. In the heating season, this could be good, especially if the electricity powering it is generated more efficiently than the heat that your 15 year-old furnace system puts out. In the cooling season it's not good, but you'll save far more energy by shading the windows than by turning off wall warts. Spend your time and money paying attention to the passive heating and cooling design of the building instead.

[Bob in St. Louis]

What about the heat cycling of the componets that would normally be "hot" (thermally and electrically)?
Is it better for them to be warmed and "ready to go", as opposed to heating them from ambient room temperature?
(and I'm not refering to the LED's)

Bob

[Folsom]

Um I do not think any form of electrical heating is very efficient. Think about it, base bored heaters and stuff.... Electric stove.... they all suck a lot of electricity for little returns.

[Martyn]

What about the heat cycling of the componets that would normally be "hot" (thermally and electrically)?
Is it better for them to be warmed and "ready to go", as opposed to heating them from ambient room temperature?
(and I'm not refering to the LED's)

Bob

I don't think there's a single correct answer to that one. Some things have their lives shortened by thermal cycling, some don't. Does DOS leave his stove on so that the rings are ready to use? I doubt it, but who turns off their electric water heater when there's no-one at home? Some jurisdictions charge less for electricity during off-peak times. This introduces another variable into the equation - is it better to have an instant hot water heater but pay peaks rates, or to have an insulated tank that loses heat continuously but that you heat at off-peak rates?

[Martyn]

Um I do not think any form of electrical heating is very efficient. Think about it, base bored heaters and stuff.... Electric stove.... they all suck a lot of electricity for little returns.

Every kW/h of electricity that your stove consumes produces a kWh of heat - it doesn't get any more efficient than that (except with a heat pump)! The issues are: how efficiently is the electricity generated; and how effectively does it heat your house?

[JLM]

When we built 3 years ago we included a whole house surge protector to cover all sensitive devices.  Amazing when you think about microwaves, dishwashers, washing machines, home security systems, clocks, TVs, computers, audio of course, etc. that are plugged in throughout your home.

We also included an outside plug to allow easy connection for a generator.  Out here in the country the ideal generator would run the whole house from the propane tank and have automatic start/transfer.  Hard to keep enough fuel on hand for a gas generator.  Larger generators can barely be hand started, and little ones require you to constantly switch between refrigerator/freezer, furnace, and well pump.  BTW the start up well pump requires at least a 5,000 watt generator (typically the biggest single load in the home).

We have a 400 foot underground service feed, (a $2500 extra) but included our own transformer for clean power.  We also bought all new major applicances.

We looked into geothermal space heating/cooling and water heating, but the $10,000 extra cost and 12 year payback scared me.  Plus it irked me that these systems are designed to switch over to electric resistance heating mode when the temperature drops to below 10 degrees (we see as cold as -20 degrees some winters).  This is the reasonable trade off between initial cost to build the underground loops/wells, the cost to pump through all that loop/well, and how often the temperature gets that cold.  But it still irked me.

In defense of electric water heaters, I've never liked that basic gas/propane water heaters are designed to waste heat in the most efficient way possible (by having an uninsulated flue come up through the middle of the hot water tank).  Just try holding your hand to the flue as it comes out of the water heater (it's hot!).  Even an expensive power vented unit vents some into the house.  In light of this, adding an insulation jacket to the already insulated tank on a gas/propane water heater is a sick joke.

We built a EPA rated 5 star energy efficient house, which frankly is a joke.  EPA made sure we used IC-AT (safe to be placed directly against insulation and to be air tight) recessed light fixtures (cost no more, not a bad idea) and they caulked between all pieces of exterior framing (that's another joke).  And they came back after we'd moved in to do a blower door test to check the whole house for leaks.  But IMO good window/door seals, using fixed/casement/awning style windows (that seal better), exterior staggered stud walls, and insulating smartly is all you need.  Our heating bills are no better than anyone else's.  Frankly the biggest factors are how big you build and if you heat with propane or natural gas.  (Natural gas cost half of what propane does per BTU.)  You also avoid the pig (ugly hillbilly tank) outside and the never quite know when the company will fill and leave you with a $700 bill to pay within 10 days.  BTW you can bury the propane tank if you buy it for $1400, but wet/clay conditions will cause it to rust out within a few years without protection.

[JLM]

Also energy related, we looked into ICF's (insulated concrete forms) for below grade and above grade wall construction.  These come in dozens (hundreds?) of varieties.  The concept is to have a huge thermal mass (the concrete) within the insulatioed shell, but it's only inside half of it, to reduce the thermal swings.)  But it takes shopping for a good specialty contractor and limits future options. 

We did end up using some SIP (structural insulated panels) for the cathedral ceiling portion of the house.  These are simply made of gluing 4 - 12 inch thick styrofoam between sheets of OSB to obtain panels up to 8 ft x 24 ft.  They are incredibly strong and can be reinforced with internal joists.  You end up with house that is insulated like a wooden refrigerator, with very few gaps in the insulation.  Our ceiling panels span 15 feet clear without reinforcement with upper midwest snow loads.  Again they cost more than standard framing, but the real downside is running wiring.  The wall panels come with "conduits" running 18 inches and 48 inches above the floor and vertically every 4 feet, but the huge majority of residential electricians don't like them so they won't bid the job.  With foundation grade plywood SIPs can also be used for the basement walls, but I wouldn't unless your building on a hill of sand.  We ended up using poured concrete foundation walls with 1 inch foil faced insulation and fiberglass batt insulated stud walls. 

I forgot to mention that the smartest energy idea our builder used was a product called insul-tarp, which is two layers of 6 mil poly with a small amount of foam and plastic spacers in between that goes underneath the basement slab (it's rated R-11).  Most folks try 1 inch or 2 inch styrofoam, but it breaks easily and can't be formed around slab thickenings, etc.  Heat loss under the slab is often neglected (unless you use software or do some sort of calculations).  I've also seen insulated basement floors (in dry locations) built simply with pea stone, 6 mil poly, and 2x4s laid flat on 16 inch centers with OSB nailed to them.  But is seems that the pea stone could shift/settle in time.

[Bill A]

I am fortunate to have a large basement where I am setting up a listening room.  One of the power panels is just behind one of the side walls.  A wire run of less than 20 feet max is all it will take to get dedicated circuits to the equipment rack.

I have in mind to run two 20-amp circuits and the question I have is this:  Should the both circuits come from the same hot leg of the panel or should they be split between the two legs?  Consider that some of the interconnected equipment could be powered from a different leg on the power panel if they are split.

Bill A

[Folsom]

Electricity heat per dollar amount compared to natural gas dollar amount.... efficiency of the dollar. There is also no fan to spread the heat from stoves etc.

[Martyn]

The point about planning for an emergency generator is a good one, especially if your water comes from a well as mine does. Eighteen months ago my power was off for six days - that was a very interesting experience!

The other point that resonates with me is that there are many good decisions that should be made at the design and construction stage that can contribute very significant benefits in terms of energy efficiency and sustainability, but that are not usually made because the pay-back time is too long. If governemnts were as smart as they think they are, they would figure out a way around this using consumer subsidies, tax write-offs, or whatever.

[Wayner]

Bill A,

Split them.

Wayner