[Pancho Urbano]

Hey, Vinyl junkies.  I posted on this same topic in the digital/multichannel circle but got little response.  I thought I'd throw it out again here:

I have a Sumiko Project and listen to a lot of new indie records.  I like buying vinyl, but I am often indecisive at my record store because I know a CD can be transfered to my iBook and my iPod...

So, have any of you digitized your vinyl collection?  If so, what program did you have success with?  Any that are freeware?  I've heard Toast is great...
If you run on a Mac, there's lots of possibilities:
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/audio/
thanks.
-pu

[JoshK]

Hey Pancho,
Actually I am starting to look into this as well.  I intend to digitize my entire LP collection soon but first want to obtain a good sound card as I think this will make a big difference.  The one I am looking at getting is the external USB version of the M-Audio Audiophile 24/96.  It has line level RCA inputs and an internal AD converter.  The fact that it is external and uses a dedicated power supply (as opposed to powered via USB, or internally powered by computer PS) should theoretically make for lowered noise.  

As far as which softward programs to use, I haven't really researched this part yet but I have seen some listed here before, and I am sure if you did a little search you would see a thread on this.

I think this is a very interesting topic, for reasons you stated.  Also I prefer vinyl for a number of reasons but I would like to make a CD copy for my wife's use as she would prefer (as would I) not to mess with my rig.  I also would like to tranfer tunes to my portable players.

[andyr]

Yes, you should go and have a look at Gary Koh's paper on black CD-Rs for when you spend your precious time recording your LP collection onto CD.  Some of them actually make better sound!!  Wierd, eh!

URL is:  http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/whitepaper/Black_CDs1.pdf

Gary also comments on the different brands of PC soundcard he experimented with.  That seems to be a minefield!

I decided to go the 'non PC' way - you can buy normal 'hi-fi component' style CDRs ... I bought a Harman-Kardon CDR20 but there are quite a few other makes.

The H-K works superbly well.  I just plug the output from my Phono stage into the CDR20, adjust the input volume control so the meters just go red on loud passages, put the stylus down in the groove and press the play button.

Playback, I can't fault.

Regards,

Andy

[JoshK]

Andy,

I have seen that before but thanks for the references.  I was wondering.  Can you edit/seperate the tracks when using a hifi cd burner?  Or is it all one track?

[andyr]

Josh,

In the H-K unit, anyway, you have the choice - either play the whole side as one track (which I do mostly) or press the pause button after each track, which causes the 'CD Track' number to increase by 1.

BTW, the CDR20 is an old model ... there's the CDR30 out, at least.  You might be able to pick one up for a good price on eBay?

Regards,

Andy

[Pancho Urbano]

This brings up a very interest possibility for me - I thought CDR's were dinosaurs -- but perhaps they have use.

A CDR component sounds like a great option here - make a direct digital copy from the phono stage to black CD (with song breaks using andyr's pause technique), then rip that to my iTunes (or whatever digital jukebox) where the information will be of high quality and may exist forever in my posession.  Although a new component wasn't in my initial thinking, I could be convinced to pick one up.

Is there a digital-import-to-computer process that could compete with the CDR option?  This would be cheaper - but would the sound quality be OK?

Thanks for your interest.  I just think this is great because we can buy all the vinyl we want and still participate in digital portability and permanence.

-pu

[JoshK]

Pancho,

One option for comparison, not sure if better or not, is using something like an external M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 USB soundcard that supposedly have a high quality ADC builtin.  I would thinking of running my phono outputs into the RCA ins (which use the ADC) on this soundcard and then compiling and burning.   This way you can edit the wavs as you wish, be it with the vinyl software that takes out pops and clicks or just breaking up the wav into seperate tracks.

I am not sure which method will work better but now I think I might also consider buying a used CDR component and flipping it when I am done archiving my vinyl collection. The soundcard option has its appeal to me though because of the other uses it would have for me.  This particular soundcard has been going for $160 on ebay.

[JoshK]

Andy,

One more question with regards to the HK unit.  Does it only accept CDR Audio media or can you use any CDR media?  That really shyed me away from buying a CDR, but I have learned not all are like that.

[hairofthedawg]

I really like my Card deluxe except for the fact that it uses TRS connections and the driver don't  function perfectly with Windows 2000.  Everything works and sounds great.  Probably the best thing I bought for ripping albums was Cool Edit Pro.  I think their website is http://www.syntrillium.com but if that's not correct a search for Cool Edit will find it.  It's a great product that's designed for recording individual tracks and mixing them together.  It has a spectral display on the music that can be used to locate and eliminate pops and crackles and my favorite part of the software is the ability to spread out the space between songs to edit it out.  Well worth checking out...

cheers,

Dick

[DSR]

Hi   I  Know this is very late   but just in case someone
 comes accross it,,,,      DVDA home recording is now
 available  ,,  the cheapest and only software is Discwelder
 from  Minnetonka and you can now get Creative Labs soundblaster
 Audigy for up 192hz/24 bit    Should be good if specs are anything to go by...SACD myself...Theirs also a sound clean up which is mega priced.     Dave  UK

[andyr]

Andy,

One more question with regards to the HK unit.  Does it only accept CDR Audio media or can you use any CDR media?  That really shyed me away from buying a CDR, but I have learned not all are like that.

Hi Josh,

Sorry it's taken me so long to respond - normally, I get an email telling me there's a new post on a thread I've contributed to but this time ....

No I'm afraid the H-K units only accept "CD-R Audio" media.  This is a licencing issue and I suspect all "hi-fi component" CD-R units will be the same.

Regards,

Andy

[steve_jrc]

H-K is selling remanufactured CDR26 models on their website for $198

[RJ]

I'm using an Alesis ML9600 hard drive/CDR stand alone recorder. It's connects to your audio system through the tape loop, just like a cassette deck. Stereophile Magazine had a writeup about it a while ago and gave it a glowing review. They use it to archive the "sound" of various phono cartridges for comparisons.

The machine was designed for professional useage to create 2 channel CD masters from multichannel recordings for production. It can also record at various sample rates and resolutions (up to 24bit/96ksps).

I have been using it for about a year and the recording quality is fantastic.  It also is a very nice CD player. The only problem is the remote control is not very "user friendly"

Here is their web address so you can check it out : http://www.alesis.com/products/ml9600/index.html

[orthobiz]

I am almost there:
Have redone my Linn Sondek ca. 1977
Have a new Macintosh computer
Am getting a new VanAlstine SLR 7 series preamp
Have bought the new M-Audio Audiophile (now with
Firewire capabilities) to connect the preamp to the
computer.

Am buying Bias' Peak, it comes with Roxio Jam which
lets you pick and choose the beginning of each song
(unless it's Thick As A Brick, I want to have track numbers)

I hear if you get the times of the songs perfect (and I do
believe the Linn runs at 33.333333333333, it will supposedly
go to CDDB and put the track names in for you!

But the Audiophile maximum I/O is 24/96, not 192 like the Alesis 9600. Man, that Alesis looks serious!!!!!

Anyway, hope to post soon on how it will work...

biz

[Hoots]

Great info on vinyl to digital
http://www.delback.co.uk/lp-cdr.htm

My plan:
DAL Card Deluxe
Store songs on PC hard drive and jukebox w/MusicMatch
copy to CDR just for backup and playing in my car

I've done a few at 24/96 but they take up a lot of disk.  I've done 24/88 for eash CDR transfer but still a lot of disk space.

For a lot of common material I just buy a remastered CD or for classic rock I buy a lot of CD box sets, or SACD hybrid like Dylan/Stones.  I'm not going to copy all my 2500 lps.

I only copy the harder to find albums or just sample tracks from several albums.   In  many cases I just listen to the LP.

Copying is a lot of work

[WerTicus]

for a comparison that might influence your choice...
the output quality from the audigy isnt as good as the quality from the denon dvd2900 - just to give you guys a 'level'.

it might be a power issue.... but the thing is powered by the pci port so - you might expect that to be 'clean' ish.

Hrmmm so whats next the vinyl guys getting into serious pc mods so they can record their vinyl properly?

[Ulas]

I intend to digitize my entire LP collection soon but first want to obtain a good sound card as I think this will make a big difference.  The one I am looking at getting is the external USB version of the M-Audio Audiophile 24/96.  It has line level RCA inputs and an internal AD converter.  The fact that it is external and uses a dedicated power supply (as opposed to powered via USB, or internally powered by computer PS) should theoretically ma ...

I just got an M-Audio Audiophile USB and IMHO it is a POS.

First, I installed it on my office PC (WinXP). I had no trouble with the installation except every time I power on the computer while the M-Audio box is connected, I get two beeps during the BIOS POST (undefined hardware error) and I get an error dialog box whenever I log on with a non-administrator user ID. I guess the programmers at M-Audio always run with administrator privilege: I don’t.

Next, I tried to install the drivers on my laptop (WinXP) which is part of my main stereo. Again, the install went OK except the device doesn’t make a sound and the M-Audio control panel is inoperative.

I was only able to evaluate the sound listening through the speakers on my office computer (if the laptop had worked I would have done the evaluation on the big rig.) The PC speakers are MicroWorks from Cambridge Soundworks. They are pretty good for PC speakers but they are not anywhere near what I would call high end. Anyway, compared to the audio CODEC on the motherboard, the Audiophile USB sounds great, but it sounds like crap when compared to either my Stereo-Link USB DAC or my ART DI/O. (I used the S/PDIF output from the Audiophile USB to feed the DI/O.)

Your observation that a USB device with an external power supply should have lower noise is not necessarily correct. I recently tried a different USB audio device on my laptop. It worked except it had a very low-level “pockit-a-pockit-a” sound superimposed on everything it recorded or played. I traced the sound to ground noise produced by the PC's power supply. As long as the analog ground is in common with the USB ground there is a potential for serious noise problems. I measured 0 ohms between the USB ground and the audio ground on the M-Audio Audiophile USB. Contrast that to the Stereo-Link, which went the extra mile and separated the grounds. The result is better sound. Of course, that’s just my opinion and YMMV.