[rick57]

Hi

Can an external hard drive serve the same audio files to both Macs and Windows machines? I really hope this is possible:

The plan is playing the same lossless files via a mix of Mac/ Windows pcs in 3-4 adjacent rooms, connected via a shared router to a ‘master’ EHD.

I believe Win XP uses the FAT32 file system.

I was about to buy my first Mac, to be the main room audio player. (Probably 2nd hand) do any versions of OS X work with this ‘dual’ purpose?

Might one of the Mac/ Windows have to decode a ‘foreign’ audio format on the fly?
If so, probably more likely I’d get the Mac to decode from the ‘foreign’ format - which lossless format(s) can iTunes on a Mac decode on the fly?

If there’s no common file system, I think I'd have to either
1. Buy a 2nd 750 Gb external hard drive and “translate” the files to be useable in operating systems  , or
2. Forget the venture into Macs and stick to Windows machines . .   

Thank you

[rick57]

Hi all,

Btw, the lossless format will probably be Apple lossless.

I was told offline that the Ethernet (and internet) protocol TCP/IP, enables PC's to talk to each other - the file system is not important once the data is served onto the network (via cat 5, not USB/ FW) - please correct me if I'm misinformed.

Cheers

[Ferdi]

Hi Rick, the way you ask the question complicates things a bit. An attempt at some answers:

From your description, I understand you want to use a mix of PC and Mac as music players. That should work.

I also understand that you want to share your music from one location/external HD. This drive needs to be connected to a computer (PC or Mac) to serve files. PC can provide shares that Macs can connect to. Macs can provide shares that PC's can connect to.

If you want to use iTunes for sharing, I suspect this will work, I just don't have any actual experiences with this.

I would say that using a Mac for your server needs would be easier and buying a 2nd external disk should not be necessary.

Ferdi

[bcretty]

Sounds to me you may want to check out SuperSync. http://supersync.com/

Enjoy.
Brian

[rick57]

Hi Ferdi,

> I understand you want to use a mix of PC and Mac as music players.

Yes, correct.

> That should work.

Good

> I would say that using a Mac for your server needs would be easier and buying a 2nd external disk should not be necessary.

The reason for two disks is one for the audio files; and in case it crashes and all the ripping time is lost, a backup for them.

> I also understand that you want to share your music from one location/ external HD. This drive needs to be connected to a computer (PC or Mac) to serve files.

I was going to connect a server (maybe the WD MyBook 2, but I have read http://www.cnet.com.au/desktops/storage/0,239029473,339275060,00.htm its buggy, maybe that’s been fixed?) to the PCs and Mac via a router.
 
When down the track the server fills up, I’d add another, also via the router.
Anyone know if PCs and Macs can read from more than one networked drive - I’d guess so, whether its problematic at all I don’t know . .

Cheers

Rick

[Crimson]

My home network is a mixture of Macs and PCs, all of which run iTunes off of NAS drives (Buffalo Technology). The music is all ripped to ALAC and I've had no issues with this setup. A couple of things:

1. Dedicate one machine only for ripping (writing) purposes. All other machines should only be allowed to read from the library. This will greatly enhance the integrity of your library. This is a simple matter of setting the ripping machine's iTunes default library path to your shared drive, while all others point elsewhere.

2. When sharing storage for audio purposes (read only), iTunes needs to 'see' a shared resource (with the exception of the ripping machine, which will have direct (write) access to the shared drive). This shared resource can be either the ripping machine (with iTunes running on it 24/7), or a NAS drive with an iTunes script embedded in it's OS (the Buffalo Technology 'Live' series NAS drives all have this). This way all read-only machines will automatically see the shared resource when iTunes is started on them.

3. I'd recommend not using a network drive for backup purposes. Again, for reasons of file integrity.
 

[rick57]

Hi Brian

(I missed your post earlier, my aplogies)

Supersync says when installed it can 
"Access your music for free from anywhere on the Internet with the built-in music server’"

I just want access my music within a home network, so it appears to be over-kill . . ? but thanks anyhow

Cheers

[rick57]

Hi Crimson

Your success is very encouraging.  You seem to be doing very much what I want to set up.
A few clarifications and further questions please . .

What is meant by the “integrity of the library”?

When you say “Dedicate one machine only for ripping (writing) purposes”, I hope/ assume it can still be used for other non-audio purposes, eg email and the net?

> setting the ripping machine's iTunes default library path to your shared drive, while all others point elsewhere

Maybe there’s a misunderstanding - wouldn’t all the other machines point to ie read from that same NAS drive of shared audio files? In my case, the shared resource will be not be the ripping machine, but a NAS drive.

What do you like about/ why did you choose Buffalo’s drives - anything other than the ability have an iTunes script embedded in it's OS? Would you recommend the NAS drive’s OS be Mac or Win?

So with the script, several iTunes will reliably run from the NAS.
I’ll get a big capacity NAS, but if or when the NAS is filled, will/ can the machines be setup to read from *multiple NAS, or would the NAS drive need to be replaced with something bigger?

> I'd recommend not using a network drive for backup purposes.
> Again, for reasons of file integrity

If a drive backups via USB or FW, rather than Cat 5 via a router, would it be considered not a network drive, therefore ok? if not, how could the server NAS be backed up?

Thanks!

Rick

[Se7en]

You can also try the Mac Airport Extreme (wireless router). It has a USB doc for hardrives, etc. You can also plug a hub into it for multiple drives.

This allows both a Mac and PC to see your drive wirelessly and be available anywhere you go in the house.

This is what I use at home. An extra benefit is that when using Itunes for playback, I can use my Iphone to remotely control my PC and it sees and controls my entire music library.

[rick57]

Hi Se7en

I intended to use a wireless router, but hadn’t considered the Mac Airport Extreme.
So PCs can use this, I’d guess as its standard 811.** ?

A USB plug may be useful . . I was going to back up directly from the NAS. (any advantages either way?)

Iphone to remotely control a PC? (what’s the interface like?)
I will get a new phone at some point, but have an iPod: I’d be likely to go for the cell phone with the best personal organizer ablilities . .

Thanks

[Crimson]

Hi Rick,

What is meant by the “integrity of the library”?
When multiple machines have write access to your music library, there could be occasional instances of accidental deletions, metadata snafus, and other unsavory database manipulations.

When you say “Dedicate one machine only for ripping (writing) purposes”, I hope/ assume it can still be used for other non-audio purposes, eg email and the net?
Correct.

Maybe there’s a misunderstanding - wouldn’t all the other machines point to ie read from that same NAS drive of shared audio files? In my case, the shared resource will be not be the ripping machine, but a NAS drive.
No, if you use iTunes only the ripping machine needs to point to the NAS drive. This is so that your ripped discs will be stored there. All other machines need only have iTunes started on them. iTunes automatically looks for shared libraries and will see your music library on the NAS drive and make it available for playback.

What do you like about/ why did you choose Buffalo’s drives - anything other than the ability have an iTunes script embedded in it's OS? Would you recommend the NAS drive’s OS be Mac or Win?
In order for a read-only computer to access your music library in iTunes, the ripping machine would need to run iTunes 24/7. Using the Buffalo Live NAS drives eliminates this requirement as it's OS already contains an iTunes script. The OS used on NAS drives is preinstalled at the factory and is neither Win or Mac, but rather a scaled down linux OS.

I’ll get a big capacity NAS, but if or when the NAS is filled, will/ can the machines be setup to read from *multiple NAS, or would the NAS drive need to be replaced with something bigger?
Yes, you can add as many drives as you like.

If a drive backups via USB or FW, rather than Cat 5 via a router, would it be considered not a network drive, therefore ok? if not, how could the server NAS be backed up?
A USB or FW drive would not be considered a network drive if it isn't specifically set up for remote access. I use Apple's Backup software and tell it to backup the content on the NAS drives to 'local' FW drives.

Hope this helps.

[rick57]

Hi Crimson

Thanks again. Your responses are clear and helpful.

> A USB or FW drive would not be considered a network drive if it isn't specifically set up for remote access

By remote access, you mean over the Internet ~
therefore if a USB/ FW drive for backing up the NAS was connected just to the NAS, say by FW, it’s fine . .


I imagine NAS brands other than Buffalo can embed an iTunes script in it's OS, did you buy Buffalo because they have better reliability/ value/ etc?

Thanks

Rick

[rick57]

Hi
(My dedicated ripping machine in a network mixture of PCs and one Mac,  is a Windows PC).

Playback will be by iTunes on the Mac -
Which Windows ripping software has the best ability to retrieve tags and cover art etc (like Max on Macs)?

Thanks 

[rick57]

Hi Crimson

Hope this isn't too many questions -

I had intended to use my to-be-acquired storage device (eg a Buffalo NAS) as well as playing iTunes on the mac via FW, to periodically backup docs etc off my Windows machine (which I was going to use for ripping not, playing).
 . . I’m catching up on my lack of a backup device for the Windows machine, and want to be sure it all works together . .

But I just noticed that you posted at AA:
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=26411&highlight=cover+art

“Do not share your main storage device between computers (whether pc or mac). Dedicate one machine to the drive, and let other machines access the dedicated machine, not the drive”

If I understand that post, might I need a separate device to backup docs etc of my Windows machine?
I hope this is clear (I’ve done a network flowchart in Excel) but I want to set it up to do three things

1. the storage/ server to play say 600 Gb iTunes on the Mac via FW
2. Backup all the contents of that drive, to a separate drive (“#2”, to be acquired about the same time as part of the overall network)
3. Backup the c. 150 Gb contents of the Windows machine
the plan is (or was?) that the server that plays iTunes, also acts a back device for the Win machine.

I only want to buy two big drives - should the Windows machine back up directly to #2? . . that would mean that backing up Windows to #2 be either by USB, or #2 would need to have Ethernet capability.

Thanks again!
 

[Crimson]

Rick,

By remote access, you mean over the Internet ~
therefore if a USB/ FW drive for backing up the NAS was connected just to the NAS, say by FW, it’s fine . .
By remote access I mean over your local network. For example, I backup the NAS drives to external FW drives that are not accessible by any machine other than the machine they are connected to.

I imagine NAS brands other than Buffalo can embed an iTunes script in it's OS, did you buy Buffalo because they have better reliability/ value/ etc?
Possible, but I only know of Buffalo that does this. This was one of the reasons I chose their drives, in addition to good reliability.

(My dedicated ripping machine in a network mixture of PCs and one Mac,  is a Windows PC).
Playback will be by iTunes on the Mac -
Which Windows ripping software has the best ability to retrieve tags and cover art etc (like Max on Macs)?
Just my opinion, but I'd set the Mini as the dedicated ripping machine/server, and use iTunes as the primary application.

I hope this is clear (I’ve done a network flowchart in Excel) but I want to set it up to do three things
1. the storage/ server to play say 600 Gb iTunes on the Mac via FW
2. Backup all the contents of that drive, to a separate drive (“#2”, to be acquired about the same time as part of the overall network)
3. Backup the c. 150 Gb contents of the Windows machine
the plan is (or was?) that the server that plays iTunes, also acts a back device for the Win machine.
I only want to buy two big drives - should the Windows machine back up directly to #2? . . that would mean that backing up Windows to #2 be either by USB, or #2 would need to have Ethernet capability.
I don't see any problem with using a single drive to backup both Mac and Win content to. Just remember to format the drive accordingly. What I would not do is backup any content to the drive containing your music library.

[rick57]

Hi Crimson,

Thanks again.

{BTW, I checked out your rig – nice!! 
I’m part way into putting together a system with some similarities (also with harder rock tastes), but lower budget:
USB out to AES digital in, on a Behringer DEQ for some room EQ, then digitally to a Behringer digital XO.
Amplifiers: Aksa Nirvanas.
(Open baffle) Apogee Centaurs to be actively crossed to 15” OB diy Lambda midbass (bypassing the little boxed 6.5” Vifas), then to kit 15” Rythmik servo controlled sealed active subs
Diy room treatment with Rockwool Fibretex of different thicknesses and “AcoustiSorb 3”.}

A couple of thoughts:

> Backing up NAS drives to external FW drives that are not accessible by any machine other than the machine they are connected to

Is the heart of the problem the backup data may ‘flood’ the network a little, causing other processes inc music serving to run less than perfectly?

So if (incremental) backups are only done when the music (or video) is not running, would it be ok?

> not backup any (non music) content to the drive containing your music library"

Likewise, might the drive be shared with integrity, if the operations are not done simultaneously?

Regards,
Rick

[Crimson]

Rick,

Nice work in progress!

Is the heart of the problem the backup data may ‘flood’ the network a little, causing other processes inc music serving to run less than perfectly?
Not really, more due to the fact that I'm quite paranoid when it comes to sharing drives. Like you, my network consists of multiple machines that are used by members of my family. Since I'm the designated network administrator, I get all the heat when it comes to 'missing' files. As such, not giving access to the backup drives to any other machine is more for security than anything else.

Likewise, might the drive be shared with integrity, if the operations are not done simultaneously?
Simultaneous operations are not the issue, but rather the fact that the more users/machines that have access to a particular drive the higher are the chances of user errors. Remember, you can set up your backup routines so that the backup drive/machine can access each computer, but not vice-versa, e.g. my music server can access content on all other machines in my household, but not the other way around. I use NAS drives for content (music, photos, etc) that needs to be accessed by all machines.

[rick57]

Hi Crimson

I have 5 in the family, but only one machine will be by other members of my family, and that only for music (all the kids have their own PCs) - but I agree it’s better to be paranoid that suffer grief.

I just bought a Buffalo Live on eBay, thanks for the tip. 

Cheers

[Crimson]

Hi Crimson

I have 5 in the family, but only one machine will be by other members of my family, and that only for music (all the kids have their own PCs) - but I agree it’s better to be paranoid that suffer grief.

I just bought a Buffalo Live on eBay, thanks for the tip. 

Cheers