[Burke]

Hi James,

Online sales site, Audio Advisor, prominently displays a number of what appear to be current Bryston products for sale on its web page including the 28B-SST power amp and the BCD-1 CD player. In its FAQs under "Satisfaction Guarantee", the Audio Advisor site also claims "Audio Advisor is an authorized dealer for all of the products we sell."

Yet, as of this evening, on the Bryston Warranty information page, the Bryston site states "Bryston does not authorize the sale of current products online." I had assumed that Bryston stood by its local authorized dealers with that assertion. Did Brystons' policy regarding online sales change after the statement was posted on the Bryston Warranty information page or is Audio Advisors misleading its customers by claiming to be an authorized dealer?

Thanks,
Burke

[Charles Calkins]

Audio Advisor is an outstanding company. I have done business with them for years. If they say it you can bet your sweet bippy it's a fact!!.

                                   Cheers
                                   Charlie

[James Tanner]

HI Burke,

Yes as of last month Audio Advisors is an authorized Bryston dealer.  

We felt we needed a USA dealer that would allow our customers a money back guarantee on a 30 day home trial basis.

james

[rawbcca]

We felt we needed a USA dealer that would allow our customers a money back guarantee on a 30 day home trial basis.

james
[/quote]

Now you just need a Canadian dealer that would allow your customers a money back guarantee on a 30 day home trial basis.

[James Tanner]

We felt we needed a USA dealer that would allow our customers a money back guarantee on a 30 day home trial basis.

james

Now you just need a Canadian dealer that would allow your customers a money back guarantee on a 30 day home trial basis.
[/quote]



Hi,

Yes sadly it seems the days of dealers allowing their customers to take gear home and play with it for a few days is going the way of the Dodo bird- not to mention that most dealers carry little or no inventory these days.

james

[reflex]

Just quite possibly the reason for that might be that so much equipment is available via the internet/mail order.  That puts the dealer in a position of a "demo shop" and not necessarily where the buyer will make their purchase.  It gets a bit frustrating when someone takes something home for a week or two, brings it back, and then makes their purchase online at a lower price than what a stocking, storefront dealer, can afford to sell for.

No dealer wants to become the "library for audio gear".  We much prefer being the "bookstore", where sales are final.  With that said, we stock quite abit of equipment and do let people take things home for evaluation, without making payment or leaving a deposit.  But these are our good customers who we know will make the purchase from us, if it's what they want.

I can certainly understand wanting to spend as little as possible on a system upgrade...I certainly want to as well, but the demise of the brick and mortar audio salon and the tightening of loaner policies is due primarily to the proliferation of equipment being available online, either from a discounter with no storefront overhead. or direct from the manufacturer.

[James Tanner]

Hi Reflex,

Yes I agree it is really a problem. Most of the complaints I get as a manufacturer are 1. that there is no local dealer, 2. the dealer does not have specific product the customers wants to hear or 3. We are a dealer - we do not have it in stock - but we can get it for you.

Generally I think most dealers see the internet online sales as a problem because it tends to be seen as a discount venue. Audio Advisors is a suggested retail price only operation.

So from my position for most customers it is an 'accessability' issue.

james

[rawbcca]

Audio Advisor will certainly be a good solution for accessing Bryston gear in the U.S.,
But there shipping charges into Canada are prohibitive.

James, How about factory direct in Canada.

[James Tanner]

Audio Advisor will certainly be a good solution for accessing Bryston gear in the U.S.,
But there shipping charges into Canada are prohibitive.

James, How about factory direct in Canada.

Hi,

My feeling is that factory direct is not something we would do. We have always felt that our partnership with great committed local dealers has always provide our customers with the best service and backup.

james

[KeithA]

Maybe the answer in todays world is that Bryston have  a couple of each model that could be designated as demo items.

So, if a prospective buyer were interested in possibly, say, buying a set of 7BSSTs at approximately $8,000 and had a local dealer (who normally wouldn't stock the item since they likely don't move many 7BSSTs!), the dealer could bring the amps in (at the buyers cost for shipping) and a prospective buyer could take them home and audition them.

This would not be practical, for say, small stuff, but $8,000 to $10,000 items, I'd definitely pay the marginal shipping cost to at least try the amps out. The cost of shipping compared to the price of the amps makes it worthwhile for me, at least, to pay to see if the product is for me. I mean, some people would think I was nuts to not test drive a car before I bought it.....

Again, this is only done through the dealer network. The dealer assesses whether or not it would allow a potential based on how it does for loaning out it's own inventory. As far as security, no gear goes out without a credit card pre-swiped for the value of the amps for security, etc....

This may or may not work....however, for high $$ value gear that potential buyers may or may not have access through via their local dealers if one has to wait for them to put the stuff in inventory, it may represent a practical way that a serious potential purchaser could spend a few $$ to see if the gear fits.

I mean, at some point gear is sent around the world for review purposes...why not have similar gear (it doesn't have to be many units, or even a unit of each) that dealers can ship in and out for demo purposes.

It would likely be only the non-stocking dealers who would have to do this and a customer willing to pay $100 to $150 to ship an amp back and forth is likely somewhat serious about a purchase too.

Hmmmm..maybe I have asked my own dealer about this possibility in the past

Keith

[rawbcca]

Audio Advisor will certainly be a good solution for accessing Bryston gear in the U.S.,
But there shipping charges into Canada are prohibitive.

James, How about factory direct in Canada.

Hi,

My feeling is that factory direct is not something we would do. We have always felt that our partnership with great committed local dealers has always provide our customers with the best service and backup.

james

That is great for people living anywhere near a LOCAL BRYSTON DEALER.

[mfsoa]

Keith,
You are far more reasonable that the average Joe who walks into a retail shop.

The them, the retailer is there to:
1) Spend as much time as the customer wishes, describing the options available and demoing as much gear as the customer wants, so that the customer knows what to buy off the internet.

2) Fix problems with the gear that was bought off the internet, free of charge.

3) Make the systems work (set them up correctly) that were bought off the internet after disregarding the retailers experienced advice. And don't dare charge what a plumber or electrician, or septic tank cleaner would charge 'cause that would be seen as an exorbitant rip-off.

4) Troubleshoot problems over the phone w/ systems that were bought over the web or in big-box stores, since these outlets will not provide after-the-sale service. But the retailer is EXPECTED to do this for free for stuff that was not purchased there.

I could go on, but it is astonishing to me how Joey Bagodonuts demands all of the benefits that a competant retailer can provide, while feeling that they are under no obligation whatsoever to contribute financially to the cause.

Keith, we need more folks like you around!

-Mike

[Phil A]

I think due to the internet, many dealers have been pushed out.  Commercial rent and utilities is not a small expense.  Let's not forget things like taxes, payroll, benefits, etc., that are not insignificant either.  I think many don't like Bryston's warranty policy (of course customers do - that's why many of us are here).  Even with the new policy in effect since Feb. 2006 with the purchase of a legit unit with paperwork can result in someone getting a warranty of 15+ yrs. in many cases at less than dealer cost or a point the dealer can't really offer much to compete w/o losing something.  So there are dealers who carry limited product who would rather sell their customers something else.  It's not that the something else they sell is a horrible product, it's just that the dealer knows the other products are not backed the same way and he's likely to see more sales to the same customer for his pocket.  The dealer's agenda is to sell something that can either be added to over time or that can result in maximizing their revenue.  They love things like active speakers from certain cos.  Why? - easy - customers will upgrade by biamping or triamping, upgrading tubes, etc.  I've seen and heard it and to a degree I can sympathize with the dealer's perspective.  It's a 'Catch 22' to some extent.  I bought a 6BSST used (drove a couple of hrs.) several years back since I couldn't hear one at a local dealer.  I liked it and decided I wanted the 14BSST.  My local dealer has carried more expensive amps than the 14BSST but has never had one on his floor with Thiel, Magnepans and other speakers that could be a good match.  So, what did I do?  A few month after buying the 6BSST, I bought a 14BSST used.  What's the end result of my experience?  I'll buy some things new as long as I can hear them and can make a meaningful comparison.  I'm not a guinea pig - I'm a customer.  If there are things I feel there are better to buy somewhere else (e.g. internet) or used - I look out for me just as the dealer looks out for his interests.

[James Tanner]

Hi Keith,

Your comments certainly bring up issues that all of us in the high-end audio business are struggling with.

In the 'good old days' the traditional ‘brick and mortar’ store was the mainstay for how products got distributed and exposed in the marketplace. I spent many an hour myself as a young fledgling audiophile in my local audio store listening and salivating over the latest audio gear as it was introduced. Most of the store owner’s were audio enthusiasts in their own right and cared as much about the quality of the audio as their customers.

Then along came the Custom Home Theater frenzy and everything changed. Now we had people in the audio business where it was more important to know how to run cables and install speakers in wall cavities than assess a quality audio setup. Many of them (no fault of their own) had no idea about quality audio or how important it is to a great audio/video presentation so most audio gear was ‘good enough’. Most speakers were there just to fill a hole. 

The result of this shift in our business though was that dedicated audio brick and mortar stores started to be left behind and the buying habits of most people shifted. Instead of purchasing from their local store with it’s  ‘audio expert’ customers started purchasing from the ‘Custom Installer’. So the paradigm shift came when the ‘Custom Installer’ decided what gear would be installed and the end users (our customer) relied on his expertise rather than researching and listening for him(her)self.

Gee I’m rambling here. Anyway the point I am trying to make is whether or not the purchasing habits of most of our customers have changed or is their still a place for a great brick and mortar store – both audio and video – with knowledgeable people having lots of different gear on display to audition?

james

[KeithA]

Keith,
You are far more reasonable that the average Joe who walks into a retail shop.

The them, the retailer is there to:
1) Spend as much time as the customer wishes, describing the options available and demoing as much gear as the customer wants, so that the customer knows what to buy off the internet.

2) Fix problems with the gear that was bought off the internet, free of charge.

3) Make the systems work (set them up correctly) that were bought off the internet after disregarding the retailers experienced advice. And don't dare charge what a plumber or electrician, or septic tank cleaner would charge 'cause that would be seen as an exorbitant rip-off.

4) Troubleshoot problems over the phone w/ systems that were bought over the web or in big-box stores, since these outlets will not provide after-the-sale service. But the retailer is EXPECTED to do this for free for stuff that was not purchased there.

I could go on, but it is astonishing to me how Joey Bagodonuts demands all of the benefits that a competant retailer can provide, while feeling that they are under no obligation whatsoever to contribute financially to the cause.

Keith, we need more folks like you around!

-Mike

Mike , you could probably rephrase your last statement to "...we need more FOOLS around like you around"

But absolutely, I agree the advent of deep discounts on "web stores" has led to the situations you note above, especially when it comes to moderately priced products.

I may be naive, but would suspect the average Bryston customer doesn't fit the template you've outlined above, though. I would like to think individuals spending $10,000 to $20,000 on, say, new amplifiers, would tend to have a different mindset. Not all of 'em, but I would hope most.

Keith

[James Tanner]

Audio Advisor will certainly be a good solution for accessing Bryston gear in the U.S.,
But there shipping charges into Canada are prohibitive.

James, How about factory direct in Canada.

Hi,

My feeling is that factory direct is not something we would do. We have always felt that our partnership with great committed local dealers has always provide our customers with the best service and backup.

james

That is great for people living anywhere near a LOCAL BRYSTON DEALER.

Hi rawbcca,

So I assume your of the mind that direct sales from manufactures would work well.  Why do you think it would work better than the tranditional dealer network or would you say it should be offered as well as the traditional dealer system?

james

[KeithA]

Gee I’m rambling here. Anyway the point I am trying to make is whether or not the purchasing habits of most of our customers have changed or is their still a place for a great brick and mortar store – both audio and video – with knowledgeable people having lots of different gear on display to audition?

james

I hear you, and I'm sure this scenario is nothing new to you folks. I think you've hit the nail right on the head.

I do think that "good audio gear" needs a 'bricks & mortar' store with all the gear for serious folks to try. I mean, you can still walk into a car dealership today and most times, you can pick from just about each model to test drive. Then you can go across the street and try another brand of car. You may not see the extreme top of the line vehicles everywhere...but some places have them. But even the smaller car dealers still have a reasonable selection. That's because the car is still seen as the best way to get around (unless gas prices keep rising ) Well, a high end audio store needs to be the same as a car dealer, IMHO.

As far as audio goes, I agree with your comments on the Home Theater frenzy. But I also think its not so much that peoples buying patterns have changed so much, but the advent of 'theater in a box' has gotten more people (who would never have thought about buying audio in the past) wanting a 'system'. So, retailers are now faced with the job of selling large volumes of stuff to people who don't know what they want or need, but really take everything the saleman says as 'gospel'. There's more money in selling the other stuff. The retailer doesn't have to try to sell the higher end gear anymore to get a margin.

The real audio nuts (like me) who always bought the good gear will continue to seek it out. It's just that my little local retailer (who at one time would actually stock a few Bryston amps/preamps/etc) is no longer doing it because they just sit on the shelf...for years.

Unfortunately, I think it's just that only in the bigger centres, where a 'specialty high end' store can survive (maybe), will one have any chance of demoing a lot of gear (like the old days).

The smaller retailers (like my dealer) that would try to actively promote and sell the good stuff (and slightly expensive compared to the generic home theater) in the past just concede to sell the cheaper stuff that's less of a risk in inventory.

Keith

[KeithA]

Hi rawbcca,

So I assume your of the mind that direct sales from manufactures would work well.  Why do you think it would work better than the tranditional dealer network or would you say it should be offered as well as the traditional dealer system?

james

That is essentially what you are doing with Torus, isn't it?

I just bought a Torus through my local dealer (I knew I would keep it ). But, if I wanted to buy from Torus direct, I could have gotten a 30-day money back guarantee and that would have fit my situation perfectly since I was not able to demo one at my dealer. If I didn't like it...I could have sent it back.

Could this scenario work for Bryston? I suspect the dealer network would be most sensitive....how do dealers now feel that Torus can be bought directly?

Keith

[James Tanner]

Hi rawbcca,

So I assume your of the mind that direct sales from manufactures would work well.  Why do you think it would work better than the tranditional dealer network or would you say it should be offered as well as the traditional dealer system?

james

That is essentially what you are doing with Torus, isn't it?

I just bought a Torus through my local dealer (I knew I would keep it ). But, if I wanted to buy from Torus direct, I could have gotten a 30-day money back guarantee and that would have fit my situation perfectly since I was not able to demo one at my dealer. If I didn't like it...I could have sent it back.

Could this scenario work for Bryston? I suspect the dealer network would be most sensitive....how do dealers now feel that Torus can be bought directly?

Keith

Hi Keith,

Good question - it is only the lower amp versions of the Torus that are direct and the reason Torus decided on this course of action was that they were not getting the support at the local dealer level.

It will certainly be a test case for the discussion we are having.


james

[KeithA]

Good question - it is only the lower amp versions of the Torus that are direct and the reason Torus decided on this course of action was that they were not getting the support at the local dealer level.

Wow...that sounds exactly like the discussion we are having.

Keith