[Double Ugly]

This is essentially an addendum to the thread wherein I've asked for assistance getting my Squeezebox 2 and new Apple Time Capsule to talk.

The big picture question is, is this what it's come to?  If you don't own all all-Apple/Mac system, can you forget about the notion of plug 'n play? 

I've changed routers 3 times in the past year and a half or so, and not once did I have to download an update from Slim Devices to connect my equipment.

Not once!

And what of performance?  I know it's highly probable my settings aren't fully optimized, but I don't perceive any increase in network speed, and the signal strength is about half that of the Belkin.  And if the settings aren't optimized, it's because (1) the "highly intuitive" aspect of this Mac product is a joke, and (2) the "Setup Guide" is a lot closer to a "Quick Start" guide than a manual.

But if you want the TC's length, width, height and weight in metric terms, just say the word; I'm your man! 

Instead of giving in to my craving to go outside and do man things in the yard (it's SPRING, fer cryin' out loud!), I've sat here for over 9 hours trying to make this friggin' thing work correctly.  That is most decidedly *NOT* why I made the switch to Mac in September of '06.

Mac gurus from the beginning of Mac time... what happened, and when? 

Is Jobs to blame?  Is there a historical precedence that tells us we're better off avoiding certain products?

And since when do people say, "I'm not going to upgrade to OSX fill in the blank until the first patch is out?"  Wow... if *that* doesn't sound familiar, you've never used a Microsoft product.

Once upon a time, people who paid the extra money to use Apple products raved about a lot of things; span of useful life (I know a guy who happily used the same computer for 10 years), ease of set-up and use, rare requirements to upgrade peripherals, memory or processors in order to use certain software. 

One of the claims was that when they did upgrade to a new OS, there was no doubt about it being a true upgrade, that each and every line of code had been subjected to intense scrutiny.  They were also supremely confident the OS upgrade would be swift, painless and worry-free. 

Was it really true, all of it?  Some of it?  Was there really a time when you could count on Apple doing all the things that people have been raking Microsoft across the coals over for years?

I am honestly interested in your answer to my questions.  I realize that knowing what happened and when isn't going to help me with my problem today, but I'd like to know if the things I heard were true, half-truths or just plain ol' lies.

Anyway, rant complete.  I'm off to have my first real meal of the day, and then I think I'll mow my yard in the dark. 

[nathanm]

I can feel the hate flowing through you, young Jedi!  But don't give in to the dark side! You're pissed off now, and I totally get it; but it will pass in time.  You will figure out the problem, and if not turn to someone else who can help.  Everyone needs a guru to turn to when things get tough.  Even the gurus do.  There's probably a few settings that are wrong, some checkbox somewhere, something so stupid you will hate yourself for not seeing it. 

But give it a rest for now, you have to pull yourself away from it and give your mind time to think clearly about the problem.  If you're spending too much time on it and not getting anywhere and the frustation is building, then just walk away from it until you are calmer.

[Double Ugly]

I'm back.  It's raining. You believe that? 

Nah, it wasn't hate, Nathan, nor was I pissed off.  I'd pretty much hit the frustration wall, though... I don't think there's any denying that.

Back to the dark side?  Not a chance!  Even considering my current problems and frustrations, my Mac experience thus far has been wonderful, vastly better than the 20+ years spent with MS.

You're right, though... I should've just walked away around 2 p.m., mowed the yard, done a little trimming, applied the weed 'n feed... anything but sit here.

Thanks for the encouragement, Nathan.  Much appreciated. 

[Bemopti123]

I like to kick the flaming ball to the camp of the SQ software rather than the OSX or the Apple router issue, but then, I did once have a Airport Extreme, the flying saucer type and I hated that hub with a passion.  It did not want to communicate and divide signals well with certain type of service, such as DSL vs Cable.  Afterwards, I feel that Steve and his crew once in a while make stinkers, nothing is 100% perfect. 

Have you tried the SQ set up with a Windows set up?  I have never tried it, but the once experience I had the the SQ 3 was with Mac and it sucked.  Dropping signals, continuous rejoining of the network.  Because I like OSX computing, I will blame SQ software and also the router software for your problems. 

Hope your problem gets resolved soon enough.

[Double Ugly]

I had a PC Squeezebox network running for a year or two before switching to Mac, and I've had the Mac version running for a little over a year.  Up till now, everything worked like a champ.

Yeah, I had the occasional odd problem, but it was usually associated with a modified piece of equipment or a fat-fingered router setting.  They were all easily corrected, and the only real complaint I had was being forced to reboot too often, and only then with the last one (a Belkin Pre-N). 

What I *thought* I saw was an opportunity to improve my network (speed, reliability and compatibility) while filling my need for a backup solution, and doing it all with one device - the Apple Time Capsule. 

You mention the AirPort Extreme and your experience with it.  I don't know the specifics, but from what I can tell, the Time Capsule is nothing more than an AEBS in a case large enough to house both it and a hard drive (500G or 1TB models; I have the 1TB). 

If what you've said holds true for me, I'll likely go back to my old Belkin and the Time Capsule will be employed as a VERY expensive backup drive. 

I also noticed tonight that the sound quality of my phone (a Philips Skype phone) has taken a nosedive.  Whereas it was pretty much crystal clear before, it's choppy now.  I had someone tonight ask me, "What's that whacking sound I hear?"

It ain't lookin' good, folks.  I'll probably check into it tomorrow, but can anyone tell me if these things are returnable?

Regardless, thanks for the well-wishes, B.  I hope so, too. 

[Bemopti123]

You can return it to Apple, but I think there will be a 15% restocking fee.  Better cut the losses and get yourself a cheaper TB drive and a reliable N type router.  Pretty sure it will be MUCH cheaper than the Apple version. 

I myself use a Netgear G Mimo, not the latest, but I have had it on for the past 1-2 years and it is rock solid, unless someone uses a cordless telephone at home...I did try the Belkin N and it was awesome, not dropped signals, extremely great range, but I wind up returning it after I figured out that my Netgear was "disrupted" by the 2.4 mhz cordless frequency.

Ah, remember to make sure you are not calling or using your cellphone when trying to do these sort of things.  The router or receptor card in your computer can be disrupted with these sort of signals that are very common at home situations. 

Paul

[nathanm]

Oh, by "dark side" I didn't mean Windows, that was just a loose metaphor for "freaking out".  Heh!

Network issues can be onerous no matter the platform.  It's the most intimidating thing about computers for me.  Routers, proxy settings, ports, WANs, MAC addresses… I just flat out don't get most of it.  But somehow I stumble on.  I had few problems getting my Squeezebox running on my Mac.

It could be worse, though.  Getting a Squeezebox running is nothing compared with trying to get Azureus running.  That's enough to make a man take down the Jolly Roger from the mast, hand in his eye patch and retire the parrot.

[Robert57]

Jim,

I am one step behind you as I am about to get a new wifi router for a new Mac Mini (once it is updated in the coming weeks, if the rumors are correct). But I have been skeptical that a Time Capsule is the answer. A well-informed customer I ran into at the Apple Store here in No. VA told me that the TC has all its software on the internal hard drive, so one is hostage to any hard-drive problem or access issue that crops up. Also, I worry about the heat issue: the TC is reported to get rather hot, with poor venting, never a good thing for your critical HD. I hate to say it, but I think you might need to ditch the integrated TC and go to separates:  Airport Extreme N base station and an external firewire or USB HD (like the 1TB Mercury Alum. from OWC). With the latest firmware upgrade for the Airport Extreme, Leopard's Time Machine now supposedly works with a USB-attached external HD, so I see no real advantage to the TC, except for some small cost savings and a neat all-in-one box. I'm not even sure Time Machine is such a huge deal anyway, if it creates more complexity. Just do an overnight manual B/U to a second HD from time to time.

Sorry for the glum suggestion. But sometimes you need to cut your losses and try something new, while your return options are still in play. Good luck!

Rob

[Double Ugly]

Hey Paul,

Ah, remember to make sure you are not calling or using your cellphone when trying to do these sort of things.  The router or receptor card in your computer can be disrupted with these sort of signals that are very common at home situations. 

Yep, understood, but the Philips Skype phones are a different beast.  They're designed to work with normal phone systems (AT&T, et al.), but really shine when attached to a network.  Their beauty is two-fold: (1) the computer doesn't have to be on to use them, and (2) the cost for a full year's worth of local and free long distance (US & Canada) is only $60.

I find #2 especially compelling since I routinely spend $60 or more for a single month of conventional phone service.  The only downside to using Skype is the lost ability to make 911 calls, but if I decide to cancel my landline, I'll have the local police and fire department numbers pre-programmed and at the top of the contact list.  That way it'll take only 3 or 4 punched buttons to reach help, same as with a 911 call.

Oh, by "dark side" I didn't mean Windows, that was just a loose metaphor for "freaking out".  Heh!

Oh.  Well, folk down here don't use metaphors, Nathan... you should've known that.  

Actually, before switching to Mac, I used to joke about Microsoft being the software manifestation of the Anti-Christ, and that 666 just *had* to be somewhere on Bill Gates' person.  I hadn't really thought about it again until you mentioned the dark side.  

[Double Ugly]

Jim,

I am one step behind you as I am about to get a new wifi router for a new Mac Mini (once it is updated in the coming weeks, if the rumors are correct). But I have been skeptical that a Time Capsule is the answer. A well-informed customer I ran into at the Apple Store here in No. VA told me that the TC has all its software on the internal hard drive, so one is hostage to any hard-drive problem or access issue that crops up. Also, I worry about the heat issue: the TC is reported to get rather hot, with poor venting, never a good thing for your critical HD. I hate to say it, but I think you might need to ditch the integrated TC and go to separates:  Airport Extreme N base station and an external firewire or USB HD (like the 1TB Mercury Alum. from OWC). With the latest firmware upgrade for the Airport Extreme, Leopard's Time Machine now supposedly works with a USB-attached external HD, so I see no real advantage to the TC, except for some small cost savings and a neat all-in-one box. I'm not even sure Time Machine is such a huge deal anyway, if it creates more complexity. Just do an overnight manual B/U to a second HD from time to time.

Sorry for the glum suggestion. But sometimes you need to cut your losses and try something new, while your return options are still in play. Good luck!

Rob

Nice. 

Looks like I should take a little deeper look into the return process.  I'd love to take it back to a store, but since the nearest is a 4-hour 'round trip away, it isn't a realistic option.

Thanks for the info, Robert... such as it is.

FWIW, you might want to consider getting a Belkin or other Pre-N router instead.  If what I've experienced here is any indication, the AEBS's range isn't nearly as good as the Belkin, and the Belkin is a speedy beast by all accounts.

Regardless, I hope your upgrade experience is better than mine.

[sbrtoy]

I must say Apple has shifted their focus to become much more cutting-edge in recent years, and with that the ease of use and reliability has declined somewhat. 

I have been an early adopter of almost everything in the past 10 years or so, some like purchasing the first Sony DVD player turned out pretty well, others like buying the first $1000 HD Satellite boxes...well they were an expensive lesson. 

I guess my point is that even with Apple there is always a shakedown period and often there is salvation for their products on the horizon if you are willing to wait...hope you can find a resolution to your issues with the SB...

[Crimson]

I must say Apple has shifted their focus to become much more cutting-edge in recent years, and with that the ease of use and reliability has declined somewhat. 

I have been an early adopter of almost everything in the past 10 years or so, some like purchasing the first Sony DVD player turned out pretty well, others like buying the first $1000 HD Satellite boxes...well they were an expensive lesson. 

I guess my point is that even with Apple there is always a shakedown period and often there is salvation for their products on the horizon if you are willing to wait...hope you can find a resolution to your issues with the SB...

Wow, flashback!. I still have the original cherry-popping Sony 7000 DVD player from late '96 and it is still running strong. I then went and purchased the 3000 as a 'cheap' second room player and it still runs great, too! OTOH, I had the first-gen SCD-1 crap out on me after less than a year which went back twice for repair thereafter. Consistency (not!).

But back on topic, I currently equate Leopard's bugginess to what Tiger was like a few months after release. Pretty much the same. The difference, though, is that Tiger was a major upgrade. Leopard (at least on the surface) isn't.

Hang in there, DU!