[Folsom]

Opinions?

Silver Iris 15/10 (not the expensive $750 module, just the $150)

or

B200 (let's say with phase plugs)

[dewar]

I've lived with B200's before getting a pair of Sterling SI's. I have never heard the stock SI but can offer a few ideas in case you are not familiar with the B200.

I've used the Planet 10 phase plugs and they do add what seems like top end extension and what is certainly wider dispersion. Definitely worth the money.

What I also found necessary whas a bsc circuit ( 1.0 mH foil inductors and 10 ohm resistors ) to tame the rising top end. Some live without this but most people seem to prefer something like it (active eq would also do the trick)

I also ended up putting some B&G Neo3 ribbon tweeter on the rear of the baffle high passed at 15k with a single cap.

They also needed quite large baffles to get sufficient bass to play on there own.

So basically a lot of work, but I think in the end you might get a slighty better midrange than the stock SI could offer, or so I've heard. I can guess from the characteristics of a 15" coax than the stock SI might better the B200 in a larger room and on larger scale work. But basically it's a lot more plug and play than than the B200 and will work without bass augmentation on much smaller baffles. I dont think you could go wrong with either driver and it might come down to the type of music you favor and the size of your room.

Can say that the Sterling SI definitively kills the B200 in every regard.

cheers

B

[dweekie]

I think a few members have had both, including myself (15").  It'll probably be a matter of preference.  My B200's had been phase plugged and damped by Dave (Planet10).  The Silver Iris is far easier to set up.  It'll play pretty low, wheras the B200's could use some help at around 150hz, depending on the baffle size.  The B200 could also get a little help with frequency adjustments with filters (ex. mox inductor, pll circuit, etc.), whereas the Silver Iris seems to be okay by itself, depending on the room.  The most popular baffle widths for both are around 18". 

As to the sound after adjustments, I kind of like the Silver Iris better.  It seems to get the tone more right to me.  Others prefer the B200.  They seem more different than being competetive to me.  I'm not so good at putting things to words.  I might describe the SI as a wide, room filling presentation, and the B200 as a fast, precise presentation.  Others probably hear it differenly. 

As for the Sterling Silver Iris - same agreement as above.  It's a big leap over both for me; more than I was expecting actually.

I guess I repeated much of what's already said. 

[Folsom]

Well I have stereo sub woofers good up to about 160hz so that helps. (easy roll off at either 6 or 12db I forget the X-over's octave roll off)

I am looking at a speaker upgrade in the future, not just yet. I however tend to investigate everything before hand, even when I have not figured out how to achieve it yet! I just know with my power filter my speakers are holding me back a lot.

I would probably want the circuit because I am using B20's with no tweeter and barely wish for any extra top extension. The thing is the higher extension with poor cables can be hard on my ears, so it is not something I want in spades.

How big of baffles do the B200's take? I have 36 inch floor standing sub woofers as is. I figure I might end up with two foot wide three feet tall baffles a few inches in towards me, just outside of the sub woofers.

Right now I run my B20's with open backs in 2 foot cubic boxes with some foam over the back. OB sounds so much better..... unless your box is extremely nice if sealed, with good driving power, foam inside etc, I am going to guess you can hear the box itself. I know that is the case with mine. I have the most ghetto speakers on the planet (I did treat the cones though) in the weirdest most unconventional setup but I could spend over a thousand dollars on some commercial speakers and be less satisfied, at least from some I have heard at the local shop. I think I have faith in OB's though based on my own tweaking experience. My speakers fall apart without something on the back of any kind, and the QTS would fail with no sides on the boxes. The just sound much better with only foam on the rear. I just recognize that sonically everything else I have is superior and they are holding a lot back that the rest of my stuff wants to show off.

I like speakers that are capable of really producing things well at volume. I do not listen very loud but some recordings I should be able to feel certain elements of music physically, and the smaller the driver the they seem to fail at this (unless you got a lot of them). My current speakers do it, but I was thinking the 15's potential might be better, especially for things like drums (say Money for Nothing intro drum part). Basically really powerful things in recordings tend to create some vibration in thing around you, or you, just like a live show would do so... although a lot of smaller speakers seem to lack this capability even if they look good on a graph. I might be talking about voodoo but that is my experience thus far. 

[bricktop]

I might describe the SI as a wide, room filling presentation

hey, I'm new here to AC but I've built a set of baffles for some Silver Iris 15" speaks.  I haven't listened to a lot of different speakers yet, but I have nothing but good things to say about them.  The 'room filling' feature is one that sticks out at you immediately.  I do wish I had a sub, but they are quite listenable without one.  Anyway, I can't say much for the B200, but the Silver Iris worked for me

Pictures of baffles on my webpage: http://gregory.webng.com/Hawthorne/SI15.html

[Folsom]

Well I am getting tired of my speakers tiny sweet spot so... I am leaning towards the Silver Iris some...

Do you guys feel they respond well to all wakes of music?

[mcgsxr]

Not having heard the Silver (or Sterling) Iris, and having owned b200 Visatons for closing on 3 years, I will stay away from recommending either - there are passionate intelligent users of both, that love them, so I would say you cannot lose either way!

I will comment on the size of the sweet spot with OB - in my implementation of OB (roughly 42H x 36w) with Planet 10 phase plugs, and no filter, I find that the sweet spot is more where the best treble is, rather than where the image is.  The oddest thing about my speakers, when placed correctly, is that you can stand at the listening distance, directly in front of one of the speakers, but the image is still centered - so if you were to get out of the listening chair, and step sideways to the R until you are directly in line with the R speaker, the image is still centered.  There is less treble over there, due to being further off axis, and above the drivers, but the image is rock solid in the center.

Now, I DID say properly placed speakers.  OB, in my room, is best heard 24-36 inches away from the walls in any direction.  Having recently bought a pool table, even my unfinished basement of 25x35 has space limitations, so for WAF, I have had to move my speakers to 12 inches off the side/back wall - I corner place the system, so as you go back, you also get closer to the side.

This has caused issues - mainly that the sweet spot is now more conventional, and to my ears the sound is more conventional too - this is to say that there is more mid bass, and more "presence" to the sound, but at the expense of air, and 3D imagery.  My best friend vastly prefers them this way, but as he listens to conventional speakers (2 ways that we built him 4 years ago), I suspect it is simply that he identifies with musical presentation in this manner.

So, choose either driver, both will make you happy.

Just be sure to play with placement, and perhaps baffle configuration, in order to maximize your ROI with either!

Have fun!

[Michael V]

I've not heard the Sterlings or the 10" Silver Iris, but I've used both the SI 15" and the B200 with and without phase plugs.

Generally, I think it's hard to go wrong with either of these, but a) neither are truly rull-range, and b) it takes experimentation to optimize either one.  For me, the B200 has a higher performance ceiling, but it takes a bit of investment to obtain it; whereas a couple hours of forum-browsing and novice woodwork gets you 95% of what the SI is capable of. 

My preference is for the speed, precision, and openness of the B200.  To my ears, the SI is a bit less involving and lacks refinement.  I suspect getting the upgraded Radian compression tweeter from the Sterling would solve these.  Then again, the tweeters themselves are more expensive than B200s (including plugs). 

Unless you only listen to the proverbial "girl with the guitar" music or have the room/spouse to allow gargantuan baffles, you will want some bass augmentation.  Fortunately this is cheap and convenient with the addition of an Alpha 15 - search for Richard's thread on this forum.  I've also been experimenting with an Aurum Cantus ribbon tweeter on top of the B200, but it's too early for any conclusions.

Regards,
Mike

[mor2bz]

Hi DOS  davd sundby here in ft collins      greetings

i had the SI 15" for a while     they will go much lower than 150 on a sm baffle making
for very good integration with a sub. 

i would use mdf IN THIS CASE for the baffles for a harder sound.  25 - 40 watts class d
should be great to control the high qts woofer.   split the crossover provided and use a
little tube amp on the top so the transients are not so harsh.  remove the screens from the
compression horns.    maybe stuff a sock in the subs          not too shabby

never gonna do young maiden with a guitar or moderate jazz like the b200 tho.

best wishes     i sold the shop due  to the mcs    thanks for everything

went to the vintage voltage show in denver yesterday :  cool     later

[Bob in St. Louis]

I've never heard b200's.

But.....

I'll put my vote in for the SI's.
Mine are used for home theater and two channel via a 40wpc Jolida 202. I've heard of many fellows running them (loudly) on 2 watts. (They're 96Db SPL).
I have no complaints with them what-so-ever and have no intention of ever searching for alternatives.
Regarding the content they see, well, everything. I listen to all kinds of music. Yes, even rap. But don't tell anybody.

I've got:
(2) 15" SI's for the front mains (home theater and two channel)
(1) 15" SI's for HT center channel
(2) 10" SI's for the rear surrounds.

So yea, I like them 'just a little bit'.  aa

Bob

[Graham Maynard]

B200 is much improved by using soft foam fingers (off paint rollers) right in front of the cone as here.

http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Fingers.a9d.jpg

Disperses some HF without affecting other frequencies.

Cheers .......... Graham.

[Folsom]

I have a good 60wRMS at least.... well I guess the volume might be more than I could take from the SI's but still they have appeal.

[Folsom]

B200 is much improved by using soft foam fingers (off paint rollers) right in front of the cone as here.

http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=Fingers.a9d.jpg

Disperses some HF without affecting other frequencies.

Cheers .......... Graham.

Interesting.... Not sure how I feel about that.

[doorman]

Michael V's summary is quite descriptive, the B200 is a wonderful driver, with more than a bit of that Xover-less magic. It does indeed need a sub, though,IMHO
                                                                                                                    Don

[Graham Maynard]

Hi DoS,

I've been doing similar for decades with different drivers.

You can move the foam fingers to fine tune the improvement - by how much of the centre beam you place the foam captured air cells in - top one damps generally - lower one damps plus disperses some of the 'spare' higher frequencies horizontally so you are not stuck listening at a specific 'off beam' angle.

Does not impair electrical connection, or less correction becomes necessary.

Its cheap and totally reversible - does not affect the drivers.

Works when phase plugs fitted and with other drivers too - better with those having the rising HF characteristic.

Easy to try.  Use boiling water to get foam off rollers, or cut up a soft car wash sponge.

To heck with the 'looks' - it works. 

Go on, give it a try ......... Graham.

[jkelly]

Michael V's summary is quite descriptive, the B200 is a wonderful driver, with more than a bit of that Xover-less magic. It does indeed need a sub, though,IMHO
                                                                                                                    Don

I find the B200 with a Eminence Alpha 15 and coil completely satisfying.

[JohninCR]

I have both, and both are good.  It boils mostly down to tastes, listening habits, and extension of your hearing. 

The B200's fall short at both ends, and if you're still young with extended hearing, then the pronounced roll-off above 10khz is obvious with shimmering cymbals and sparkling guitar solo's.  Their bottom end can be satisfying as long as you don't want to play loud.  They do have the potential to be world class as a very wide range midrange, with help at the top and bottom, and addressing the beaming inherent with anything other than a very small driver.  Phase plugs help somewhat with the beaming, but not nearly to the extent of a waveguide, which also flattens the response nicely.

The SI 15 is easier to implement, since almost any baffle works, and they give you more extension on both ends.  Be warned, if you like loud and have acute hearing, those cheap pro tweeters can punish you.  Since the SI is a coax with the front only radiation from the tweeter taking over in the 2khz range, the rear radiation rolls off quite early.  This makes them sound totally different in room.  In some ways this makes things easier, because there's less concern about absorbent material behind the speakers or on the wall, but it does take away a bit of open airy OB sound compared to the B200.

I've been listening mostly to my B200's for over a year, and rarely turn on the sub, but my dipole waveguide baffles are not easy to design or build.  Every time I go to my friend's hotel at the beach, I can't wait to pull his SI's outside that are housed in the OB/RLH's I built for him, because it's an instant concert with better sound than any I've ever attended.

John

[Folsom]

Well I have subwoofers so lower extension is covered pretty well.

However with the SI's I am sure I could just through a resistor over the polls of the tweeter if I found it too harsh. Hell I think I have a few laying around for experiment with Piezos.

It is always likely I will be listening inside though....

JohninCR do you have any pictures of these different projects I could look at?

[dweekie]

Search past posts of his username.  You will find a wealth of pictures.

[Folsom]

Search past posts of his username.  You will find a wealth of pictures.

I have seen his one with the bass augmentator attached to it as well, with a sort of magnet mount looking setup, but not the SI's.