[K.C.]

Roger I want to at least protect my gear from power surges. I'm in Santa Barbara and as you know when the wind blows the power goes on and off more than most places. I've had some nasty surges.

Does using something like the PS Audio Ultimate Outlet have any drawbacks with the RM9 or RM10 ?

The amps are quiet and I've never felt that I needed to condition AC for them.

http://www.psaudio.com/products/ultimate_outlet.asp

Thanks,  Kirk

[mca]

I'd be curious about my RM200 also.

[Imperial]

You guys are maybe wondering if the amplifiers powersupply will be starved/disturbed in anyway
by such a device in front of it?
I think Mr Modjeski has stated that his designs are very efficient, that is they waste very little of the wall power
they consume, very little indeed for a tube design.
PS Audio recommends the High Current outlet themselves for any amp at or above 100w...
I'm sure it will work perfectly, as long as one opts for the least power limiting version.

Imperial

[satfrat]

You might want to look at the products from Enviremental Potential Inc. http://www.ep2000.com . BPT uses the EP2000 as an upgrade for their balanced power conditioners.

From their website:

Environmental Potentials promotes the greater efficiency of electricity through innovative technologies that protect your electrical environments.

From BPT's website:

EP-2000-- parallel high current surge suppression and line filtering (neutral sounding with no power insertion loss) available for our CPCs, PPC or any of our Balanced Power Isolators. - $300
The EP-2000 system (a patented design, manufactured for BPT by our friends at Environmental Potentials Inc.) is designed to suppress power line induced voltage surges up to 10,000 volts, which is approximately three times greater than the industry recognized statistical average of such surges entering a facility. It operates upon the principle of selective filtering, time spreading and absorption of voltage waveform anomalies induced onto and riding on a line frequency sinusoidal power wave. At the instant a high voltage transient or surge appears on the line frequency wave, it is clamped at a level just above the peak value of the sinusoid. This clamping action creates an amount of energy determined by the difference in the clamping voltage and the peak voltage of the transient, the impedance of the clamping device within the EP-2000, and the time duration of the transient. A solid state component designed for fail-safe performance. Includes LED for instant visual confirmation that the EP2000 surge/filtration system is fully active. If the EP2000 module should ever fail or loose its full capability for surge suppression, it can easily be replaced.

        ·          Removes, absorbs and dissipates transient voltage surges and spikes, high frequency noise and ring waves

        ·          Frequency Attenuation: -20 dB/decade roll-off starting at 2.5kHz

        ·          MaxSurge current: 25kA per mode

        ·          Provides both common and transverse modes of protection

                     ·          Extends life of all equipment connected

Could be just what you're looking for,,, 

Cheers,
Robin

[Roger A. Modjeski]

Other than using a power re-generator, surge protectors have no value in my designs. Let's see why....

Most of my amps use a voltage doubler power supply. Since one diode is always on a surge will be dumped into my very large filter caps which will just laugh it off. If a surge is big and long enough to bother my amp any surge protector or power re-generator will likely be up in smoke by that time. The whole surge protector game has been a way to charge twice as much for an ordinary outlet strip by adding a protector which will, in my experience, cause more trouble than it prevents. I've repaired several other products (microwave controls, washing machine controls, etc) for friends and usually the surge protector itself is what causes the unit to stop working.

A student brought a DVD player to class that was blowing fuses. I noticed a wisp of smoke coming from a surge protector. I yanked that thing out like a bad tooth (my dad is a dentist) and the patient was up and going. Replace the surge protector? Why invite trouble?

[K.C.]

OK, well that's pretty much what I expected you would say.

So the power re-generator would have some value. Just by creating a constant level and clean waveform or ... ?

Thank you!

[Roger A. Modjeski]

Clean waveforms do not make good amplifiers better. The impedance of most wall outlets is a few tenths of an ohm. If it were more we would see the lights dim appreciably when an electric heater or microwave oven came on line on the same circuit. I have measured these in my home and found that a 10 amp load only moves the line a few volts, certainly less than 10. The peak current that can be drawn is therefore many tens of amperes up to 100. I doubt any re-generator can do that.

All my power transformer designs have very low resistance primaries, generally less than an ohm for the 200 watt amps. Adding any passive conditioning/filtering nullifies the care I took to get that primary resistance down.

Say what you will about the benefits of power conditioning. There are some bad amps out there that may benefit because they are too sensitive to line variations. Mine aren't so just plug them in like any other appliance.

I have, however, found that lamps connected to power conditioners produce the cleanest most soothing light.... just kidding..

[jeffreybehr]

Roger, is that 'latest incarnation of the EM7-5' supposed to be a link?

[Ericus Rex]

That's what he's listening to right now.

Roger, you almost had me with the lamp thing....

I unfortunately must use my power conditioner for the multiple outlets it has.  The 1888 house I live in has only one outlet and it is about 8 feet from the stereo system.  My last residence was from about the same time period.  When I plugged my amp (Counterpoint SA-100 at the time) directly into the wall there I got a loud hum that went away when I plugged the amp into the conditioner.  What could that have been?

[Roger A. Modjeski]

The amp was probably getting low voltage, a regulator may have dropped out and that passes supply hum into the audio circuit. Many designers have too small a margin on regulator drop-out and this becomes a problem. A good regulator should work down to a minimum of 105 VAC. I shoot for 100VAC and some work down to 90 VAC. The lower the better. There is an expensive line stage preamp with regulators that drop out at 115 VAC which is asking for trouble. It's hardly a regulator if it drops out that soon.

We can discuss regulator drop-out as a new topic for those interested in starting it.

[Nilanjan]

Roger, would you also comment on the effects, if any, of audiophile power cords? I was at my dealer when he swapped the regular cord of an RM-10 for a Shunyata Venom. It seemed to make a difference, although I was not convinced it was better.

[rbwalt]

K.C. i have had a RM9MKII and now i have a RM9SE. I use a Q1.5 from Equi=Tech for the amp. I also use a Son of Q for the line stage and cdp and super bam( i have Merlin speakers). I live in northern VA. i found that i was not getting consistant sound. By that i mean some nights it would sound good and on others not. The sound always seemed to improve later at night. There was always some grain in the sound along with some hum from the various gear. No matter what i did i could not get rid of it. I had a chat with Bobby at Merlin Music and he recommened a line conditioner.He told me that he uses them at the shows with great success.He told me to call Rich Brkich at Signature Sound in Liver Pool New York. I called Rich and chatted him up about it. I ordered one and i liked it so much i ordered another. System noise was drastically reduced( no componet hum). Sound was now more consistant from turn on throughout listening.Music was smoother (no grain or harshness). The mids opened up more and the bottom end took on a more weighted sound and feel. Even the highs sounded smoother. I would say if you can get one to try out do so and see for yourself.It will give you the  surge protection you are looking for plus the added bonus of a more consistant sound.


rob walters.

[rbwalt]

i use a JPS AC+ power cord on my RM9SE and it is very good. I use cardas golden reference cords on my other gear. roger is not a fan of power cords. he thinks they do not make a difference. i have had many a conversation with him on this issue. we agreed to disagree. I had the chance to listen to a RM10 in my system with a different power cord. i had a JPS GPA2 so i used that. after the cord settled in things sounded smoother with better definition from top to bottom. just allot more liquid sounding. you may have to try different cords to see which one is best. this is my opinion. give rich brkich at signature sound in liver pool new york a call. he knows his stuff!!!

rob walters.

[Nilanjan]

Thanks Rob. I actually know Rich, having bought his collection of "The Absolute Sound" from some early issues through 1998. I am still thrilled with the purchase many months later.

[rbwalt]

great to hear that. rich is a fantastic guy. i have bought many a cdp from him along with my equi=techs. rich is planning to come visit me next week. i used to live in rochester and know him through bobby at merlin. saw rich last summer when i went north. we are avid car nuts along with our stereo gear. he has helped me greatly with my 2005 jetta GLI and my stereo system.

i would still look into a balanced power unit for your amp. i once a pre-amp plugged into a wall socket and a lighting strike took it out. it was fused protected but it jumped the fuse. so i take all the precautions i can now.

good luck!

rob walters.

[satfrat]

great to hear that. rich is a fantastic guy. i have bought many a cdp from him along with my equi=techs. rich is planning to come visit me next week. i used to live in rochester and know him through bobby at merlin. saw rich last summer when i went north. we are avid car nuts along with our stereo gear. he has helped me greatly with my 2005 jetta GLI and my stereo system.

i would still look into a balanced power unit for your amp. i once a pre-amp plugged into a wall socket and a lighting strike took it out. it was fused protected but it jumped the fuse. so i take all the precautions i can now.

good luck!

rob walters.

You are not alone,,,, I've been using a BPT balanced power conditioner for 4 years now and has made a huge difference in lowering the ground noise so the highs & lows are uncovered. I have my whole system plugged into this 2500watt conditioner. Some like them, some don't,,,,, and that holds true for both the consumer & the manufacturer. Gotta go with what works for me and it's always good when I hear from someone who feels the same.

Cheers,
Robin

[Roger A. Modjeski]

Thanks for the link. That unit will not help you for the problems of your concern.  It appears to be a filter, they don't say much. Note that the unit is an aluminum extrusion with an ordinary outlet on one end, an IEC connector and a toroid filter in between.

In my amplifiers any spikes are absorbed by the filter caps which are far larger than the MOV devices in these units.