[Hantra]

All:

I have been in a constant battle with my system for a little while.  I finally got my system locked in a couple months ago, and things were great.  Everything was palpable, and real.  But I had no bass.  I didn't really notice that much until I heard some little monitors over at Scott Nixon's house that he had brought over a few weeks ago.  When they were here, they were great!!  Really really good. . But they had no bass.  I didn't expect bass though b/c they were 4" Jordan drivers in a little cabinet from Carolina Audio.  But you know what?  They had PLENTY of bass at his place.  TONS for their size. . . .

So. . . I spent probably 8-10 hours modelling my room in CARA, and 2-3 days doing calculations, and moving around.  Still not enough bass.  My Piegas have crazy bass.  I have heard them elsewhere, and I know they'll do it.  They just don't in my room.  

I thought about adding a sub.  That may, or may not solve my problem.  Active EQ like the Behringer might work.  But then again, if my room just won't do it, then it won't work.  I have been moving speakers around more and more just trying different spots.  Nothing seems to get me where I need to be.  So, for the past 3 weeks, I haven't listened much at all upstairs.  I've been listening to this little Sony AVD-S50ES downstairs on some Aliante Pininfarina Stile monitors.  

I'm thinking seriously about giving up, moving the Piegas down here, and setting up a decent HT system.  I'm also thinking about picking up some headphones, and a headphone amp.  That would certainly end the battles I am having right now.  

Then again, as my friend told me, the grass is always greener on the other side.  I might end up having totally new issues with that setup.  

So what would you guys do in this situation?

I really don't care anymore, and could go either way.  

Has anyone else been through this?

B

[Tyson]

stereo VMPS New Original subs actively crossed w/a Marchand and EQ'd will give very musical bass and PLENTY of it.

[Hantra]

stereo VMPS New Original subs actively crossed w/a Marchand and EQ'd will give very musical bass and PLENTY of it.

Even if my room won't do it?  Wouldn't I have the same placement problems with those?

B

[Tyson]

I have not heard a room yet that won't do bass.  It's all a matter of placement for the bass modules (the subs).  Put the subs in a corner to give them room boundary re-inforcement and quantity of bass will not be a problem.  Then just use the EQ to tame the most egregious of the bass peaks, and you have good, musical bass, and plenty of it.

[JLM]

Please describe or submit drawings of this no-bass mystery room.

[Hantra]

It's 12.5 x 14.5.  Here's a CARA diagram. . .

[Rocket]

hi hantra,

i am not familiar with your piega speakers are they stand mounted or floorstanders?

have you tried moving the speakers back towards the corners of the room.

regards

rocket

[Hantra]

i am not familiar with your piega speakers are they stand mounted or floorstanders?

have you tried moving the speakers back towards the corners of the room.

They are floorstanders. . Allegedly, they go to 32Hz.  




Right now the drivers are about 3 feet from the front wall, and 2.5 from the side walls.  I just moved them back there, and although there is more bass, it doesn't sound right.  A friend of mine has a sub that I might try next week.  I dunno how it will sound. .

Thanks,

B

[Rob Babcock]

Nice speakers!  I agree that with the suitable application of subwoofer power you can get good bass in your room.  A pair of subs definately is the way to go; a bit more work to blend, but you'll get more bass and (more importantly) more even distribution in the low end.  

I highly recommend the Behringer, as it works wonders.  Don't bother trying to fill the dips in response, you'll just waste time and amp power.  The DSP1124P I use is fully parametric, which is nice.  You might check with NathanM, I think at one time he had a couple of Behringers for sale real cheap.  At the price he was asking, it's a no-brainer.

[Hantra]

Rob:

Not sure what you mean by not trying to fill the dips in response.  The Behringers I have seen are similar to the Tact, and correct room deficiencies in the digital domain.  Isn't that the whole purpose of getting one to fill in the dips, and roll off the peaks?

Thanks for the advice!

B

[doug s.]

i agree w/tyson.  i was gonna mebbe suggest a pair of larger subs, but now that i see yer room, i tink smaller ones (w/megawoofers, for sure), would work yust fine.  small rooms are tough to do w/o oevrloading the room....

doug s.

[_scotty_]

All:

I have been in a constant battle with my system for a little while.  I finally got my system locked in a couple months ago, and things were great.  Everything was palpable, and real.  But I had no bass.  I didn't really notice that much until I heard some little monitors over at Scott Nixon's house that he had brought over a few weeks ago.  When they were here, they were great!!  Really really good. . But they had no bass.  I didn't expect bass though b/c they were 4" Jordan drivers in a little cabi ...

 Hantra, Have you tried putting your speakers on other walls, and can you purchase or borrow a Radio Shack spl meter and take a test CD with bass warble tones on it and map out the high and low pressure zones in your room with the speakers in their current location. I suspect but cannot prove that you are trying to hear bass in what amounts to a standing wave null at your current listening position.

[KevinW]

Hantra,
What are the dimensions of your room? I have a finite element modeling program that calculates bass resonant nodes for every frequency.  I'm thinking perhaps your head is in a place where there are a lot of null modes.  I can do a quick calculation on my software if I know the dimensions.

Have you listened to the bass or lack thereof at different places in your room?  Have you tried moving the piegas against the walls to increase their bass response?

Aren't those Jordans great for a little 4" driver?

[Rocket]

hi hantra,

have any audiophile friend's listened to your system?

sometimes we convince ourselves there are problems with the sound of our systems.  i'm always after the best sound and have spent lot's of $$$ on upgrades.  i pick my system to bits all the time.

i had a listen to a 20k au system using naim amplification and sonas faber speakers.  i thougth my system was a fair bit better and has made me less critical of the sound of my system.

regards

rocket

[Hantra]

Hey Kev. .  

I have tried moving.  Right now, I am 3-4 feet out from the wall.  I can move back and forth b/c I have this glider/rocker chair.  I don't really notice much of a difference in bass response when I do that, but quite a difference in the general tonal balance.

The Jordans are super!!!  I have moved them as much as I can man, and I have tried them in several places in the room.  It's so frustrating.  

Anyhow, Rob, I have had many people over to listen, and they all like it, but they all hear the lack of bass, and probably attribute it to the speakers.  Once, I had Brad V over to help me, and we moved the speakers.  That changed things quite a bit, and although I did have more bass, it sounded less like music to me.  That's where the individual preference thing comes in.

Thanks for all the advice,

B

[sfdoddsy]

I suspect your speakers will have a bit trouble reaching a genuine 32Hz at the best of times, but I would suggest separate subs anyway.

Your room will probably have some significant standing waves which one of the room mode calcularos whould be able to show you, so I would definately use the Behringer EQ.

Your lowest room mode 'should' be at about 42 Hz, and below that you should get significant room gain.

Cheers

Steve

[KevinW]

Wait... are you saying that the lack of bass problem is using the Jordans, and not the Piegas?  Well, that is EASY to explain... the Jordans require several things to give them good bass...

1.  A small room... how does your room size compare to where you heard them?
2.  A good cabinet design.  A TL is really the only way to extract sub 70 Hz bass from the Jordans.  I get response down to 50 Hz using my design. What kind of cabinet are you using?
3.  A non-critical attitude.  A 4" driver can only move so much air.  From 50 Hz to 70 Hz,  there is not a lot of bass energy.  However some does exist, and above 70 Hz, the bass is loud, crisp, and very tight (especially in a TL).  Since most harmonics of bass notes are above 70 Hz, the Jordans can create an excellent illusion of deep bass notes.  When combined with a musical sub, the seamlessness of the overall sonic presentation can be excellent.

[Hantra]

Wait... are you saying that the lack of bass problem is using the Jordans, and not the Piegas?

Actually, this happens with all speakers I have heard in this room.  It is just more noticable with the Jordans b/c I was able to hear tehm in a different room at a friend's and hear just how much bass they do have .  .  .

B

[Tyson]

A sub in each front corner will fix your bass problem.  Trust me on this.

[Rob Babcock]

Actually, Tyson, that seems pretty room dependant.  I tried one sub in each front corner and, suprisingly, at least to me, no matter how much I tweaked, they sounded better together in the same corner.  Go figure.   And this was with parametric eq, SPL meter, many test discs and a lot of time.