[mfsoa]

Just wondering about these two options for power delivery, all things being equal (although they never are).

Would the iso transformer usually be preferred, as long as it is able to provide adequate power?

Seems like the dedicated lines would still be subject to the whims of the other AC in your house, and that the iso transformer would be in another league as far as clean power delivery.

I have read up some on the Torus line and I think they say that it can actually deliver current better than a wall recepticle, in addition to the isolation benefits. Seems like best of both worlds.

Lastly, are Torus and the Richard Gray Substation essentially doing the same thing? - Isolating the incoming and outgoing power via a transformer? (I'm not looking for comparisons of features/quality etc., but just the similarity/difference in the general operating principle of the two units, or any others that fit into this category)

Thanks

-Mike

[mfsoa]

bmp

[satfrat]

Hi Mike, I'll volunteer a crack at your questions,,, not an an expert but just from what I've been told and experienced on my own. A dedicated circuit is only as good as the isolation of that line at your breaker box from all the other lines in your house. Unfortunately, the microwave or refregerator on another circuit will still find it's way to your system on another circuit unless that circuit has been isolated from the others,,, either at the breaker box or in your system using an isolation or balanced transformer. Or you can filter that noise with other forms of passive conditioning. I hadn't heard about the torus line of conditioning but just comparing their 2400w box with BPT,,, well it's double the price. But Torus will provise either isolation or balanced wiring of their transformers,,, all tho i'm sure bpt would do the same apon request. The Richard Grays from what i've heard use choke transformers, not isolation or balanced transformers.

Cheers,
Robin

[SET Man]

Hey!

    If I own a house I would start with spending money on getting 20A dedicated line first. Than you could go nuts adding things on later.

Take care,
Buddy

[satfrat]

Hey!

    If I own a house I would start with spending money on getting 20A dedicated line first. Than you could go nuts adding things on later.

Take care,
Buddy

That's what I did and I don' even own my house.   aa

[likecoiledsteel]

Me too.

[PhilNYC]

The Richard Grays from what i've heard use choke transformers, not isolation or balanced transformers.

He's talking about the Richard Gray's SubStation (not their choke-based RGPC power conditioners):

http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/substation.htm

[satfrat]

The Richard Grays from what i've heard use choke transformers, not isolation or balanced transformers.

He's talking about the Richard Gray's SubStation (not their choke-based RGPC power conditioners):

http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/substation.htm

Hmmm, never heard of them. Looks to me like a balanced power transformer plus a stepdown 240/120v transformer. Seems to go a lot of things. Do you have any knowledge about them Phil?

Cheers,
Robin

[Gordy]

Unfortunately, as more and more power companies lease their power lines as communications signal carriers, the investment in dedicated lines just doesn't make sense to me anymore.  This is only going to get far worse as the technology improves.  Balanced power conditions, like the BPT and others, and/or passive filters, like the Audience and Isotek units (or any of the diy balanced and passive clones) have been the most effective from what I've experienced.  Running Springs and EquiTech were quite impressive as well!  Of course the problem remains that systems seem to responded differently to various conditions so, it's still up to the user to determine what, if anything, works for them    Don't ya just hate that 

[kyrill]

What is the logic behind a dedicated power line starting at the breaker box? All those years i failed to see it..
Soundwise? If the breaker can have 20 amperes and 17 amperes are used for the kitchen, well that is not a good line for my audio. But that is for power reasons. I mean musical sounding reasons.

All interferences of the house reach that line just as easy as if there was no dedicated line. Maybe on average a very small resistance is added for the interferences to reach the audio room as they have to travel more copper after the node in the breaker box.
Unless that line is isolated from all the other lines so a high current isolation or balanced transformer will be situated there in that breaker box. but now the long line(s) from that breaker box to the audio room will pick up airborne and other sources of RFI and EMI and start to pollute the relative clean power (relative as i understand an isolation/balanced transformer is not 100% isolating while balanced is more effective)

Some  people therefore let expensive isolated AC lines be installed in the walls on their way to the audio room.
Isnt every penny of this expensive approach not completely over taken by what i see as a much qualitative better and mucho more cost effective approach?
Instead of one big massive and probably humming balanced transformer (BTRF) at the breaker box to make a dedicated line logical, use multiple smaller ones: every group of apparatuses has its own dedicated BTRF in close range of those apparatuses . So the source, the preamp, the amps each group has there own. If you believe the power amp will sound less, it will sound less as well with the BTRF in the breakerbox.

Even better is a BTRF for every  single component, its VA suited to that component. I double the value of the component for the transformer
Now it is also so much easier to add filters á lá Felix to every BTRF as a naked BTRF will be completely insufficient. The lines after the BTRF succeptible to EMI/RFI are now your own AC powercords which are designed
 to handle those interferences. Costs add up, but you can make this step gradually and be surprised of the next experience in silence and transparency, focus and so on.

at least above story is based on my idea as i see what the advantages of a dedicated line is:
1) all other lines reach that dedicated line as if it is not dedicated at all
2) unless isolated at the breaker box expensive as a registered professional must do this and half crippled as a solution as the long lines to the audio room pick up new interferences unless
3) shielded very expensive lines thru the walls to the audio room, ONLY then do you have reasonable clean power where your setup is.

But approach number 3 does not isolate the apparatuses from each other. Especially the digital components from the analogue ones. Many years i underestimated how bad digital pollution from the CD player or DAC was feed back thru its AC cord to the power bar into my analogue amps
 
As there are so many advocating a dedicated line, i may make a mistake , see something wrong, but what is it?

[ctviggen]

I can think of multiple reasons:

1) no sharing of power with other stuff
2) better ground and less chance of ground loops
3) you turn off that breaker, and the system's off (good when going on vacation)
4) if that breaker trips, it's the audio system and nothing else
5) I think there's still less stuff added to the system, although I haven't tested this

#1 is important if you have things like refrigerators or freezers (which I do) in your room.  When those turn on, they tend to sag the power on their line --at least temporarily-- but not on the whole house. 

[kyrill]

hi Bob

1) is a power thing it is not number one sounding better ( musical reason)
2)better ground, well relative better ground, I completely forgot ground as i have a dedicated ground line
from the garden to my house heater systems connected to the ground of the power bar( no idea how those pipes and metal planes filled with water interconnected to a water heater is called in English.) better ground has an sonic effect
3) handy, but no musical reason
4)no musical reason
5) not sure

So can only see one point  advantageous to better sounding gear. But the ground in the house is polluted anyway.
My first choice would be a dedicated ground line instead of a dedicated power line.

[lcrim]

I also have wondered whether dedicated power is that great an idea.  When I had a dedicated line run to my bedroom sysytem I encountered RFI that took a while to resolve.  There was a separate ground run and the situation was resolved. 
I tried isolation trensformers and balanced power is the only format that I've tried that has  been effective.  I would speculate that the removal of DC from the neutral is the basis for its effectiveness.

[PhilNYC]

Hmmm, never heard of them. Looks to me like a balanced power transformer plus a stepdown 240/120v transformer. Seems to go a lot of things. Do you have any knowledge about them Phil?

As a dealer for Richard Gray's, I probably should know more... .  But it's basically exactly what you described....