cartridge recommendations

Derockster · « **on:** 18 Mar 2008, 12:15 pm »

Hi guys,I've just bought a Rega p3 turntable with an RB 300 arm.Need some recommendations for a suitable cartridge.My first thought/love is a Grado but without fluid damping I'm not entirely sure how/if that would work.Regards derockster

woodsyi · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Mar 2008, 12:32 pm »

What phono stage do you have?

Derockster · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Mar 2008, 12:48 pm »

I am using a Naim Nait 2 with a built in phono card.

woodsyi · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Mar 2008, 01:31 pm »

What is the gain on Naim phono card? I am sure it can do MM but can it do LOMC? Their stand alone units seem to have gain of about 60 dB which may not be enough for a LOMC. I am not saying you need a LOMC -- just trying to establish the parameters for a right logistical match. Then you can decide what sounds good for you. On that note, what is your budget?

Derockster · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Mar 2008, 02:40 pm »

Hi woodsyi,my budget is between $300.00-$500.00 dollars.ps don't want to go lmoc.Regards derockster

woodsyi · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Mar 2008, 02:56 pm »

I had good experience with Benz Glider 2 and Rega arm. They are good match and together as a unit gives good even presentation even if it's just a teeny bit on the polite side. Definitely tracks well. You would have to go with High output version I think. I am sure others will chime in with recommendations. Good luck.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 Mar 2008, 07:35 pm »

Derockster - hi.

For about $260.00, there is from Pickering UK the low output (0.33mv) Pickering XLZ-7500s. You need 60 db gain (they sell a step up for about $100 if you don't have 60db gain at hand). It should be loaded (ideally) higher than almost any LO moving coil at 500 to 1100 ohms...but it should mate well with the Rega arm.

It tracks well and sounds good in a variety of arms I have - it's really a great cartridge value with most of the inherent electrical benefits of moving coils, with the mechanical advantages of moving magnet designs in tact. It's internally damped unlike the Grado's...so you'll have none of that bass bloat and wobbly imaging that folks without fluid arms find with Grados.

Load it right and you'll be richly rewarded

There's no perfect option, so don't sweat it. The Pickering may sound good enough, however, to stick with it for some time to come. Due to the lowest DC resistance levels I'm aware of at 3 ohms, more signal passes thru that design than any other I know of. It bests all but the $5k design Moving Coils in that specification.

Regards, John

klamka · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Mar 2008, 08:30 pm »

I'd skip Grado on Rega arm, table. Reference Sonata sort of sucked -sibilant and boring . Cheap Stanton 688EE showed her a corner

. I second Benz Glider -much better than GRADO. AA vinyl is crazy about any Dynavector on Rega. Regatrs, L

Photon46 · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Mar 2008, 11:01 pm »

Be wary of defacto proclamations of this or that products attributes. Grado Sonata "sibilant?" I've heard the Sonata in several systems and it's one of the least sibilant cartridges I've heard. I own a Sonata (but don't use it) and a Stanton 681eee and in my system, my impressions are the exact opposite of Klamka. That doesn't mean I think Klamka's wrong or hearing impaired though. As is repeated ad nauseum, system synergy is all important. It doesn't take much imagination to understand why someone could find Grados boring though, they do tend to the mellow side of things. Lots of listeners prefer mellow leaning to etched though. Pretty much every cartridge is going to have detractors and enthusiasts. It's unfortunate, but I think you usually just have to try a cartridge to see if you like its sound. You don't mention your budget and what sort of gain your phono preamp can provide. Both are pretty important bits of information to provide if you want advice that means anything.

nature boy · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Mar 2008, 11:17 pm »

Excellent experience with a Dynavector 10X4mkII and a modified Rega 300 arm
on my Nottingham turntable. I hear the newer 10X5 cartridges are great too!

NB

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Mar 2008, 12:58 am »

Photon,

My Grado's are explosive and dynamic - not mellow. Fluid damped arms are a necessity to get them to sound right...or perhaps a CartridgeMan Isolator or other DIY apparatus that does similarly. It needs serious damping to thrive...fluid is best for it.

Belt Drive decks without very tightly regulated speed control will exacerbate the famed Grado bass bloat (makes it sound mellow). DD with fluid damped arms work very well with the Grado's...as does changing the profile to an exaggerated hyperelliptical or shibata.

Without at least some kind of damping - or excellent speed regulation...I wouldn't recommend a Grado. With this, they are hard to beat at any price .

Regards, John

Photon46 · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Mar 2008, 10:09 am »

John, with regard to the stylus profile changes you mention:whose styli? Have you had yours retipped by someone other than Grado? I've wondered about doing that myself, but wasn't aware of anyone working on Grados other than Grado. I've not found the Sonata lacking in dynamics, just as well extended at the frequency extremes as my Garrott Optim FGS. The Garrott is also noticeably better at resolving low level detail and musical nuances (not surprising considering the Fritz Gyger profile.) It appears to have a higher compliance and isn't prone to audible disturbance by highly modulated passages like the Grado is in my VPI JM9 arm. Thanks, Will

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Mar 2008, 03:45 pm »

Hey Will,

Sound-Smith.com in the US can fit a ruby cantilvered nude line stylus to virtually any cartridge.

I would think in UK that Expert Stylus and even TheCartridgeMan might. I have heard if you beg and plead Mr. van den Hul to work on a non-moving coil, he too will fit one of his beauties on a Grado.

John

bluesky · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Mar 2008, 07:50 pm »

Hi

The Garrott company (from Melbourne, Australia I believe) does retippng and I have had good reports from friends as well.

Not too long ago I enquired about some piece of exotica and they actually recommended a much cheaper option. This really impressed me as few companies would tell you of another product in their range that gives them less money is actually better. Whilst I have no experience with Soundsmith I can highly recommend Garrott Brothers.

Lastly, I have been continually surprised at the speed with which products now travel around the globe, often it only takes two or three days for airmail from the States to Australia. The record though for me was a part ordered online late on a Saturday afternoon which arrived on my doorstep Monday morning from Hong Kong, all through the postal system!

Bluesky

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Mar 2008, 08:26 pm »

The Dynavector 10x5 is an excellent cartridge. It fits in your budget, works great with Rega tables, and has a very good synergy with current Naim gear. I haven't heard one with older Naim gear nor a Nait 2, so I can't say that it would work well for certain. IMO, for the money, the 10x5 is THE cartridge to beat.

Other options that haven't been mentioned are Ortofon's new M line, and the Linn Adikt.

andyr · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Mar 2008, 12:08 pm »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 19 Mar 2008, 12:58 am

My Grados are explosive and dynamic - not mellow. Fluid damped arms are a necessity to get them to sound right...or perhaps a CartridgeMan Isolator or other DIY apparatus that does similarly. It needs serious damping to thrive...fluid is best for it.

Belt Drive decks without very tightly regulated speed control will exacerbate the famed Grado bass bloat (makes it sound mellow).

Regards, John

My Grado Platinum Reference is playing now, as I type this. I would certainly call it fast (maybe not "explosive"?

) and dynamic ... and it sounds terrific on my LP12 with Graham 2.2.

I certainly don't hear any "bass bloat", either ... which, as many people complain about the LP12 having the same, I would've thought would come through loud & clear if there was any?

Which Grados do you run, that give you such problems?

Regards,

Andy

Arlequen · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 Mar 2008, 12:45 pm »

I'm listening my Grado Prestige Gold on stock SL1210 Technics and it sounds fantastic ..
Surely some MC sound more extended expecially in high frequencies .. Grados give you probably a bit less than others but at least what you give is precise weighty and dense and not ethereus light and thin
Btw Grados midband is top N°1
I'm very intrigued to try the Grado PH1 phono board but unfortunately no one of my friends own one

Someone says it is marvellous with Grado cartidges making them sounding much better than with other phono boards

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 Mar 2008, 03:09 pm »

Quote from: andyr on 29 Mar 2008, 12:08 pm

My Grado Platinum Reference is playing now, as I type this. I would certainly call it fast (maybe not "explosive"? ) and dynamic ... and it sounds terrific on my LP12 with Graham 2.2.

I certainly don't hear any "bass bloat", either ... which, as many people complain about the LP12 having the same, I would've thought would come through loud & clear if there was any?

Which Grados do you run, that give you such problems?

Regards,

Andy

Hey Andy,

Any Prestige-series Grado used on belt drive decks without tightly regulated speed controls and or fluid damping is likely to take on the drowsy, bloated sound that many speak of.

Your Platinum Woody is a good attempt by Grado to gently damp their product by use of dense Aussie hardwoods

. If your Linn has upgraded power supply, it's probably well regulated because of it. Between the wood body and regulated power supply, you probably do avoid the bass bloat that many owners experience....and promptly sell off their Prestige -series Grado's because of it.

The Grado Gold on my $3K Origin Live Illustrious (non fluid damped) on the (poorly regulated) AC-driven, VPI HW-19 MK. III sounds pretty pathetic, actually. It's amazing what a difference securing the same cartridge to the $100 ebay-sourced JVC Quartz-locked, DC Servo deck with fluid damped tonearm has with the Grado.

The Grado's are all great cartridges....they just need more attention to various matters than most owners realize they need.

John

andyr · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 Mar 2008, 09:50 pm »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 29 Mar 2008, 03:09 pm

Hey Andy,

Any Prestige-series Grado used on belt drive decks without tightly regulated speed controls and or fluid damping is likely to take on the drowsy, bloated sound that many speak of.

Your Platinum Woody is a good attempt by Grado to gently damp their product by use of dense Aussie hardwoods . If your Linn has upgraded power supply, it's probably well regulated because of it. Between the wood body and regulated power supply, you probably do avoid the bass bloat that many owners experience....and promptly sell off their Prestige-series Grados because of it.

The Grados are all great cartridges....they just need more attention to various matters than most owners realize they need.

John

Hi John,

I guess the Lingo 1 must provide good enough regulation? And there is some silicon fluid in the Graham's unipivot housing so maybe that provides enough "fluid damping" as well?

Regards,

Andy

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 Mar 2008, 11:40 pm »

Andy,

I don't know Linn's well to know what is a step-up motor controller and what is stock.....but, no doubt, the silicone fluid in the Graham arm is helping more than a tad

Grado's need critical damping - somehow - then they are a dream. Until then, they can be quite disappointing

John