should i fix this turntable.

jmpiwonka · « **on:** 10 Mar 2008, 06:28 pm »

ok, here's the deal. my brother gave me an NAD 5020 turntable. i hooked it up to my denon dra635 (has a phono in) and i get a staticky sound coming from one channel. i had another tt hooked up and it was fine so i'm pretty sure it's the tt.
also, i get a little clicking sound from the actual turntable, i assume it's the motor or the belt.
third, the auto return drags the needle across the record...is there an adjustment on this?
i'd love to read a manual on this turntable if anyone knows of a link to a pdf or something...

what's a nice cartridge to begin with?

Wayner · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Mar 2008, 08:14 pm »

Go to http://www.vinylengine.com/library/nad/5120.shtml. They have a 5120....don't know if it's close.

The manual should tell what's adjustable.

Wayner

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 Mar 2008, 08:28 pm »

There's almost always an adjustment for auto-return somewhere on the deck...look for a plug or recessed screw hole somewhere on the (generally) right hand side of the deck (within several inches of the tonearm).

Make sure the connections from cartridge pins to headshell wires are clean / de-oxidized (remove and clean thoroughly).

Clicking sounds can be several things.....narrow it down by just spot listening aroudn the deck by ear. Typically you can zero in that way.

It may or may not be worth fixing....you won't know until you do a little investigative work and diddling.

A turntablist is a diddler, unfortunately. But, after a while you get good at at and enjoy music like no other audiophool does

Just hang in there - there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

John

jmpiwonka · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 Mar 2008, 10:01 pm »

oh i'm a diddler. i drive older cars because i don't mind fixing them. i ride older road bikes and don't mind fine tuning them to get them working great. i just needed a little direction on this thing before i started messing with it. i'm pretty confident i'll get it working properly now.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 Mar 2008, 10:53 pm »

There's not a lot to most belt drive tables (NAD's were mostly pretty simple by memory)....and especially if they are non-suspended designs.

It's a board, with feet, that has a motor adhered to the underside, which is semi-decoupled to the platter by a belt. A hole is carefully drilled in the board and a pipe with pillar of approximately 9" in length is inserted. You attach your electro-mechanical device called a cartridge to the end of it.

Viola - you have a turntable with cartridge ready to play records

The devil is in the details, or course

If you successfully fix cars - you'll be fine. I cannot tie my shoes and I can do minor repairs on a table

(ha)

Good luck - John

Wayner · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 Mar 2008, 10:54 pm »

Just remember, the real fun will come when it's time to properly set up the cartridge including things like Vertical Tracking Force (the weight at which the cartridge tracks the grooves, usually about 1.5-2 grams), Vertical Tracking Angle (the attempt here is to get the arm parallel to the record surface as all cartridges have the VTA built into them (20 degrees)). Then there is Anti-Skating setting to null the inward tendencies of the arm. There is also the arm length, overhang and offset angle that must be found out for your model of table (research is in order here). Next, selecting an appropriate cartridge that is compatible with your arms compliance. It's a long mission, you will need some tools as well. We can help. There is alot of geometry to these things to get it to kill CD performance, but it can be done!

Wayner aa

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #6 on:** 10 Mar 2008, 10:59 pm »

I just realized, it may not be your auto-return that needs adjusting.

Look to see if your arm height adjuster is the correct height for your particular cartridge. It's the little bar that goes up and down when you mess with the cueing lever. To fix it is normally a cinch.....it's a screw somewhere on the arm height adjuster crossbar that you turn clockwise (tighten) to lower and counter-clockwide (loosen) to raise a bit.

Play with that a bit to satisfaction and you might have found your answer to the needle dragging issue.

Of course, if the needle was dragged badly enough you may have damaged it....and hence you have the scratchy channel issues. Then again, maybe not. Just diddle away (including cleaning the stylus point with a brush from back to front) and you'll likely figure it out.

Ciao, John

jmpiwonka · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Mar 2008, 12:22 pm »

i got the auto return adjusted. i started looking after someone mentioned it should be adjustable (makes perfect sense, lol) and i saw the screw. i screwed it out a bit and tested it out. screwed it out some more and it's where i want it.
i pulled the connectors off the cartridge, they were all tight and not oxidized. played with the tracking force and went from .5 all the way to 2 grams and it's still staticky and seems to be distorting some.
i think the belt might be what's whining. i'm going to order a new belt and see if that fixes that.

i've read the link about setting up cartridges in the sticky'd links at the top. i think i'm gonna order a new cartridge when i order the belt.

the cartridge on it now is an ADC K8E, i bet the sylus is damaged from dragging...

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 Mar 2008, 02:34 pm »

Ah, you got screwed - and it's a good thing

That's an old cartridge man....the old ADC's had quality control issues. Ie., they fell apart (but sounded nice when whole). Could be your static-y issue right there.

If the belt is stretched, try boiling some water and throw it in there for a couple minutes. It might shrink it a bit. If the whining ceases or reduces, you know you have an old (maybe oily or greasy even) belt.

Keep diddling......

John

jmpiwonka · « **Reply #9 on:** 11 Mar 2008, 08:44 pm »

well i'm gonna pick up a cartridge after work i called a shop close to my house (i'm on my bike today

) and the guy said he had a grado black and a reba i think...
anyone care to give me sway me one way or the other for a starting place. i been reading about the longhorn mod too...

my speakers have ribbon tweeters, morel 55mm dome mids and a seas 7" woofer, ported enclosure. the receiver is a denon dra635.

i'm tempted to go with the black to start out but i saw that someone put in that data base that their grado cartridge hummed on the inner diameter of their records with they nad turntable.

electricbear · « **Reply #10 on:** 11 Mar 2008, 11:16 pm »

For an inexpensive cartridge the Grado Black will do a good job. They are unsheilded which can cause a hum on direct drive tables. Yours being a belt drive you should have no problems.

jmpiwonka · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Mar 2008, 01:43 pm »

well, i got a grado black and did a quick setup. the guy at the shop gave me a printout of the linn protractor to set the overhang...
the cartridge improved the sound as the other was distorting some at high dynamics in the music, the grado is not distorting at all.
the imaging is pretty good and the soundstage has lots of depth...but it always has. the highs are a little softer than i like. might just be the characteristics of analog or i might be able to fine tune that a bit.

i still have what i referred to as static before. and really it's a hum. it comes from the right speaker when the amp is on Phono. if i switch the rca's from the tt around it still comes from the right channel which may be normal (i usually mess with digital and i'm used to having that switch the channels...). the hum doesn't really get bad until i get the volume up to about halfway...which with the tt will probably be a normal listening level...with the cd player that is really rocking out.
i wanted to say that when a roommate had his turntable hooked up my receiver didn't make that hum but it very well could have. i may take this tt over to my brothers and a/b it with his tt on his receiver and see if it hums then.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Mar 2008, 01:57 pm »

50 hour break-in needed for Grado's.....bass, treble and the rest should flesh out a surprising amount in that time.

In the end, you may find the treble with the Grado still to be a little soft.....I think it's because the bass so powerful next to most cartridges (which begs for an equally powerful treble, but instead it is a little soft). The cheapie elliptical tip of the $40 Black model does it no justice for treble either......a quality line stylus or shibata tip really changes the character of Grado's treble.

Slight 'tail down' VTA with Grado's usually best - it mutes the bass just slightly and makes the output a little more even-handed in bass/midrange/treble. Tracking force should be 1.55 to 1.6, rather than recommended 1.5 for best sound. Anti-skating works at about 2/3 of tracking force or about 1 gram.

They are an unusually fussy cartridge for the money...when you diddle in the particulars, they are amazingly rewarding. Until then, they are often amazingly frustrating

The 'hum' may be an old cap going in your right channel phono...nothing much to do except replacing it (and the other side).While your at it, replace the resistors with something low noise and closely matched (stereo imaging is greatly enhanced with close matched values)

Old, worn caps in line stages aren't often noticed as much as their gain is quite a bit less as there is much more voltage from a CD player, tuner, etc, so high gain is not needed (nor wanted) in line stages.

John

jmpiwonka · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Mar 2008, 02:55 pm »

oh cool. thanks for the info, i thought after some break in time the sound may get better, i'll wait and see. i also put in a modest bid on a grado crtridge on ebay...didn't think i'd win that so i have an ortofon m20fl i'll be able to mess around with too...i'll probably take the receiver in to get it checked out...it'd be nice to get that thing nice and quiet.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Mar 2008, 03:11 pm »

Grado's seem to thrive in fluid-damped or wood arms (or wood encased, as with Grado's higher line Reference and Statement series). Wood is an excellent damping aid as I have found.

Without damping, particularly when played in belt drive designs without tightly regulated speed control...their bass (which is prodigious) will often sound wooly, or out of control. What this really is underdamped...the Grado is inherently so. The speed issue only magnifies the underdamped nature of the Grado's.

Grado believes that damping the internals indiscriminately damp out the music, too...I am of that camp. I have a $3000 arm that doesn't mate as well as a $100 ebay table with factory arm....all because the arm is oil damped internally both vertical and horizontally.

You may find moving to an Ortofon, AT or other (traditionally higher damped internally) may be a more suitable match for your NAD table, ultimately. But wait 50 hours on the Grado to see...

John

jmpiwonka · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Mar 2008, 05:19 pm »

ok, i've played a few more albums and i don't think the highs are as lacking as i originally thought...sounds pretty nice.

i boiled the belt only to inspect a little closer and find out that it does make the noise without the belt on. it seems to be the motor. it's a little whine or a squeak...if i put a little pressure on the shaft that turns the belt then it goes away. any ideas? it doens't do it all the time but it will squeak intermittently.

Edit: it might be fixed. took the bottom cover off and inspected. saw the two bearings so used a little screwdriver to put a drop of lubricant above each bearing, turned it over and let it run for a bit. put it back together and letting it run some more. hasn't made a noise yet. hopefully it will stay that way.

Wayner · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Mar 2008, 08:58 pm »

Good call on the motor. Sounds like that was the problem (dried out bearings). What did you use for a lubricate? Also, boiling the belt is a temporary fix as it will soon return to it's original stretched out condition.

Wayner

jmpiwonka · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Mar 2008, 10:00 pm »

a very small amount of wd40. sprayed it in something. then dipped the tip of the screwdriver in it. let the big drop fall off and then with the motor spinning i just touched the tip of the screw driver to the shaft above the bearing. after a little playing the bearings quieted down.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Mar 2008, 04:37 am »

Niiiice - that's using the ole' noodle

John

Hank · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 Mar 2008, 04:27 pm »

You might try TUFOIL - someone posted it is the "slickest" lube around and great for TT bearings - has teflon in it. I ordered some, put it in my Wilson Beneche TT bearing well and the platter free-spins a good bit longer than it did with the original oil.