AGON/EBAY/ONLINE MARKETPLACE ETIQUETTE?

ratso · « **on:** 5 Mar 2008, 10:47 pm »

i am very frustrated right now and wanted some advice from the general community. if the person this is about is out there it is not my intention to flame or criticize, i will use no names. i just want to know how others would handle this situation.

i just sold (after only 3 days) online an inexpensive chinese tube amp for around $600. it was only a few months old and in like new condition. i packaged it in the original packaging which was very elaborate and damn near bullet proof, insured it for the full amount and sent it out. after online tracking said that the person had received it, i emailed the buyer asking him if everything was ok. he had a few comments about the packaging (the post office beat up the outside of the boxes some and stated that a box of NOS tubes i had laid on top of one of the amps rubbed some yellow color from the box on one of the transformers. stupid of me. i asked him if it cleaned up ok with an alcohol pad and never heard another word about it.) but seemed to indicate that everything was basically fine. he said he would try them out, asking if he could run his cd player directly into them. i said yes he could. the next email i received from him was that he "did not want them". he said the pots were "noisy" in his system and wanted a refund. i repeatedly asked him if he thought they were damaged in any way and he said no, he just seemed to indicate he didn't like them.

i was selling the amps because my family needs some extra money right now. it would be very difficult for me to come up with the money to refund him. i have indicated to him that i would be happy to pay for any repairs that are needed if the amps are damaged. i also suggested to him that he should just relist them on the online service i used. the amps have been glowingly reviewed in 6moons, stereo times, etc. the "noisy pots" are Alps. they sounded wonderful in my system and the manufacturer used to brag on ebay that they had NEVER had a bad response from a customer and even put every customer feedback response online for viewing.

am i in the wrong here? i have also bought things online that didn't work out for me/i did not like, but i never thought that was the seller's responsibility. what do you guys think? thanx for reading.

Sonny · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 10:52 pm »

I see your frustration...I've sold many items on both Audiogon, Here and elsewhere. Luckily...for me, ti's been good for the most part. However, I feel that i your case, you've done more than enough in offering repair to an item that is operating fine. If the buyer now does not want it and wants a refund just because they don't like it, the buyer is out of luck. Buyers here are buying used gear from an individual, that's why it's cheaper...there are risks that he may not like it, but those are the risk.

I think you are a better man and just leave the sale as is. Don't refund unless the product is defective in some way.

my 2 cents

ratso · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 10:55 pm »

thanx sonny not that i'm looking for affirmation that i'm right, if people think otherwise then i want to hear that too! what i really don't understand is he could just relist them and get basically a 100% refund in just a few days and then everyone is happy. what i'm most afraid of is that this guy will leave negative feedback online and it will interfere with me dealing with other people in the future.

KCI-JohnP · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 10:58 pm »

Ratso,
I agree with Sonny, we buy used gear to save money over brand new gear, if it works fine but you just don't like the sound then to bad; put it
up for sale. If you didn't offer some type of satisfaction guarantee(sound wise) then I'd say the buyer needs to "man up" and put up an ad on
audiogon. I hope all is working out for you and your family.

Sincerely,
John

Sonny · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 10:59 pm »

Well, don't worry about negative feedback...to leave neg feedback, he must need approval from you...if you don't approve, you two will have to take it up with Audiogon admin.

ratso · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 11:04 pm »

thanx for this also sonny. i was not aware of that and it makes me feel a lot better.

ratso · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 11:06 pm »

and you also john (don't worry i won't thank everyone that replies). things are not bleak or anything just a little hard and we need a little extra $$ more then tube amps right now

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 11:11 pm »

Too bad for him. You've got $600 for your family. Period. As long as you're giving us the whole story then the transaction is done.
I've bought things on eBay that I didn't like as well.....my loss, my bad. It's the risk we take when we search for deals on used equipment on the internet. If we want a safety net of returning things we don't LIKE, then we should buy new from an authorized distributor. He'll probably slam you on feedback, but take it like a man and move on.

Bob

jules · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 11:26 pm »

Ratso, you mention both ebay and Agon here so I don't know which one you used.

You appear to be on strong ground and you do have the money. With ebay, the sellers funds can be frozen if there's a dispute about the item. If that was to happen you would probably be ok if the buyers objection is merely that they don't like the item.

I've just been on the other end of a transaction in which some audio tubes sold to me as new were in my opinion decidedly used. Ebay's first response when I made a claim was to insist that I returned the item. It then became apparent that it was going to be impossible to prove the item was used, short of the seller suddenly having a major attack of conscience and confessing to fault ... long story but OT here. In the end, the seller finished up with the tubes AND the money ... slightly unsatisfactory

Just be careful that you are aware of the Agon/Ebay policies and remember that international legal action on things like this is pratically speaking impossible.

jules

ratso · « **Reply #9 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 11:31 pm »

hmmm sorry to hear that jules. someone was definitely in your case out to scam. i always try to give my fair assessment of what
i am selling. to be fair though, it is MY assessment so i guess you could argue that it is somewhat biased.

ratso · « **Reply #10 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 11:32 pm »

not to run this totally off course but in a related note jules with the changes to ebay's feedback system i'm not so sure i would EVER use them again unless it was for something really low budget that i couldn't care less about.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #11 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 11:36 pm »

Actually, while Agon does give you the right to respond before negative feedback is posted, it still gets listed. It is then incumbent on YOU to initiate a dispute which probably would go up before the membership to decide on.

This is not clear from their guidelines but having been in the middle of one of these recently I can tell you that's how it was done.

My opinion is you're wholly in the right, ratso. I've never heard of an implied satisfaction guarantee in these types of sales and if you think about it there shouldn't be. We all have different tastes - how could you possibly guarantee the other user will like it? To expect otherwise would be unreasonable.

jules · « **Reply #12 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 11:40 pm »

err, I have to ask at the risk of staying offcourse ... what changes are you referring to?

I've come to the view that ebay's feedback is their default system for dealing with problems in that they are not prepared to take any responsibility themselves. My conclusion is the same as yours ... unless you are prepared for the possibility that a deal can fall through and you'll lose your money, don't do it. So yes, it has to be cheap or maybe hugely expensive and identifiable ... like the Sydney harbour bridge or the Statue of Liberty.

jules

SET Man · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Mar 2008, 01:13 am »

Hey!

Look like a case of buyer's remorse here.

ratso, as a seller I don't think you did anything wrong here. I assumed that you stated in you selling post everything the buyer need to know about amp. And you sold him an item that is in working condition and it got to the buyer in working condition.

I think this is buyer's problem not your. This is part of buying used audio equipments. Unless the seller stated that he/she will take return than the item is now buyer's responsible. He better just suck it up and put that amp back on sale on the net.

I know that you probably won't tell but I'm very curious what amp are we talking about here.

Anyway, good luck.

Take care,
Buddy

IronLion · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Mar 2008, 01:20 am »

I am in the middle of a dispute right now with a seller who I will not name over an item I purchased from him through these forums; should I start my own thread to avoid hi-jacking this one or is this an appropriate forum for presenting it to folks here? I really would like to get people's opinions here as I believe the seller is being unreasonable.

ratso · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Mar 2008, 02:49 am »

sorry for the slow reply - went out to eat and just got back. i was referring to the story i saw on the news (i believe on cnn) that said that ebay would no longer allow negative feedback toward sellers, only positive feedback. i don't know if they actually put this into effect or not and actually i was talking with my dad at dinner and he said it's not in effect. maybe they got too much negative feedback

concerning the idea?

Quote from: jules on 5 Mar 2008, 11:40 pm

err, I have to ask at the risk of staying offcourse ... what changes are you referring to?

I've come to the view that ebay's feedback is their default system for dealing with problems in that they are not prepared to take any responsibility themselves. My conclusion is the same as yours ... unless you are prepared for the possibility that a deal can fall through and you'll lose your money, don't do it. So yes, it has to be cheap or maybe hugely expensive and identifiable ... like the Sydney harbour bridge or the Statue of Liberty.

jules

ratso · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Mar 2008, 02:52 am »

sure go for it iron, as long as there's no names. (oh and if it was sold here i wouldn't make it easy to figure out the name either like i sold blah blah amp on mar. 01 to someone that was inquiring in the thread...)

mfsoa · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Mar 2008, 02:59 am »

Mr Lion,
Of course, feel free to name names for any AC transactions that you thought went well!!

IronLion · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Mar 2008, 03:14 am »

I'll start my own thread in the near future. In the meantime though, I would like to express my opinion that like Headfi, I think we should have feedback profiles here for each member so that buyers can know who they're buying from and vice versa as well.

JohnR · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Mar 2008, 11:29 am »

Probably would be quicker if everybody just read the trading post guidelines.