[dbyrd]

Vinnie--
Cranking up for Isabella.

I am using a stock Dell Dimension computer as a server.
What are the possibilities for powering it with SLA batteries?

Have you done anything with that? or is there any thing
out there that you know of.

Still finding my upgraded S-70s a great joy.

  Best, Don

[woodsyi]

I think Dell calls that Latitude.   

Really, why would you want this? 

[dbyrd]

I have a slight noise--part ac hum,
part something else perhaps--that is
audible with ear very close to speaker.

When I use my Dell Latitude D500 on
battery power, the noise is gone.

My neighborhood for some reason has the
dirtiest AC I have ever encountered.  Before I
got a good line condition I heard radio
stations, sometime in languages I did not
recognize.  But I have reasons, partially
to do with the physical lay-out of the system
to use the desktop machine (and partially
because I have it)

If I get an Isabella and get my computer on
battery power, only the turntable will be
on AC

[woodsyi]

Don,

What function does your PC serve for music playing?

[dbyrd]

Don,

What function does your PC serve for music playing?

It's my transport. I have nearly 2000 CDs ripped as WAV files
to hard drives. I can still play unripped CDs from the CD player
in the computer, but I took the transport out of the system.
I hadn't turned it on for months. (Of course, there is still a
large vinyl collection).

I am currently using an usb output from the computer,
to HagUSB converter to the balanced inputs on
a Timbre TT-1 DAC. I will probably replace this cobbled
together setup with an Isabella DAC-preamp when it is
available.

As far as I am concerned CD players and transports are things
of the past.  In terms of sound, convenience (and cost, for that
matter), pc audio is the way to go.  My entire collection of
CDs is now on a searchable database. It is easy to make
playlists.  The artist, album, and song title are displayed
while they are playing. This is the reason that the Isabella
is such an exciting prospect.  The usb output from it
goes directly to the native format of the DAC chip as I
understand it.  A lot less intermediate shuffle, and more
of the components off the noisy grid.

And there are many forthcoming improvements that will make
pc audio even better.  RIght now, the quality of playback
from pro audio software like Wavelab is better than any of
the jukebox software, but tracks have to be loaded into it
one at a time.  So all of the know-how for much better software
is available. We are just waiting for someone to recognize
the growing market and combine highest quality playback with
a good database and front end. j river jukebox and foobar 2000 and Itunes
on Macs (not so good on PCs) are all good, particularly with good
ASIO drivers. And they are all free.
   Don

I think that off-the-grid DACs, preamps, and amps and PC audio
are the hottest things going right now.

[woodsyi]

Don,

I hear you.  You are preaching to the choir.   

I had a dedicated "quiet" PC with a tank of an enclosure built to use as server for my DAC.  I used EA Off Ramp (USB converter) instead of HagUSB.  I found that different engine with different drivers sounded different.  On some songs, I was getting over saturated sound that I did not like.  Some, especially 24/96 music really sounded good.  Anyway, I kept my music on a NAS off-site to keep the music PC lean and mean.  It would take a big SLA I think to run a desktop PS.  Good luck.

[Vinnie R.]

Vinnie--
Cranking up for Isabella.

I am using a stock Dell Dimension computer as a server.
What are the possibilities for powering it with SLA batteries?

Have you done anything with that? or is there any thing
out there that you know of.

Still finding my upgraded S-70s a great joy.

  Best, Don

Hi Don,

Powering a home computer on battery power is not an easy task and as woodsyi points out, will require a lot of power. 

Computers run on many different voltages.  You get all that noise/hash because the computer's power supply is a noisy switch-mode power supply.  Besides the noisy power feeding the computer, this supply also feeds noise back onto the AC line to other components that run off of the mains.  Your PC's power supply converts the 120Vac into all the required DC voltages to feed your computer.  Voltages such as 2.5V, 3.3V, 5V, 12V, -12V, GND etc. are quite common.  There are so other signals such as PWR-OK, PS-ON, etc.  I'm not saying that you can't take a large 12V SLA battery and using linear voltage regulators to output the required voltages and signals (which would be much, much cleaner than the switch mode power supplies on the market).  This is  just a cumbersome task and one that is not power efficient (linear regulators will create plenty of heat). 

You are much better off using a battery powered laptop.  I am using a MacBook and highly recommend it!  With the included remote and Front Row / iTunes software (with all WAV or Apple Lossless files), the user interface is terrific!  I can run off the internal battery power for up to 6 hours (very good for a laptop!).  I use the USB output to feed the Isabella's dac (prototype), which converts the USB direct to I2S to feed the non-oversampling dac chip.  The sound is truly superb! 

If you need more hard drive space, and external USB hard drive is something that can be added (and an SLA battery power supply for this is something that is doable).

If you are set on using your current PC, you might want to try using the optical output (TOSLINK) to feed the Isabella's internal dac.  At least this way, the noise of the PC will be isolated from the Isabella dac/preamp + Sig 70.2s + Speakers.  This is true for other sources such as the Squeezebox, DVD/CD transports, etc. 

As far as analog, I just upgraded my Rega P3-24 to a Scheu Premier mkII turntable with Scheu Classic mkII tonearm, Dynavector 20x cartrige, and Lehmann Black Cube phonostage.  The Scheu motor runs on 12Vdc, so it is on its own SLA.  I modded the Black Cube phonostage on SLA power as well... this analog rig (along with the rest of my system) is completely off-the-grid and the sound is free of noise and extremely seductive!  I only wish I had more hours in the day so I could listen more and more 

As far as I am concerned CD players and transports are things
of the past.

I have to agree with you on this.  Music Servers playing Lossless or WAV files will continue to thrive.  I also see the use of FLASH based storage (larger and larger GB of FLASH based storage for less $$$) will replace our mechanical, magnetic hard drives. 

For me, my sources will be a music server as transport feeding an external dac, and vinyl. 

Thanks for your post!

Vinnie

[dbyrd]

Vinnie--
Thanks  for the very helpful response. But as I suspected....

Tree or four years ago, I got an Ipod, and I thought Wow! it would really
be cool to have a big Ipod to connect to the system.  I had an old computer
in the basement, with Win 2000 and I put Itunes on it, ripped
some disks, and it sounded great.  But that computer soon died, and
I bought this Dell Dimensions--the cheapest thing around to replace it.

It still hadn't occurred to me that there must be a lot of people doing
this. Finally, I got around to posting something to the Digital Forum on Audio
Asylum, and someone pointed out to me that there was forum devoted to
PC audio. Had I know what I know now, I would have bought something else.

The people on the Audio Asylum forum worry a good deal about power
supplies, but the possibility of just getting off the grungy utility is not much
considered.

I have a PC laptop that I can use for the time being--though I doubt that its
battery will run 6 hours. It is quiet, and sounds great running j rivers media center
or Foobar 2000. And yes,  I will need to set SLAB power for a couple  of 500gb
 drives--mostly full. It will be a while before terabyte flash drives are affordable,
but it will be great.   

I have a Lehmann Black Cube on battery power (as you suggested), but perhaps
I won't worry about my turntable for awhile.  Frankly, the digital stuff is sounding
so good (and, of course, it is so handy) my vinyl has been rather neglected.

Again, thanks.  And I am looking forward to getting the word on the Isabella.

   Don
 

[Loftprojection]

If you need more hard drive space, and external USB hard drive is something that can be added (and an SLA battery power supply for this is something that is doable).

The new Apple Time Capsule with 1Tb is great for this!

[dbyrd]

Vinnie--

I know you are busy, and I wouldn't bother you with this if it weren't for the possibility that others might be interested.

Is there any reason the PicoPSU would not run from an SLA as well as from a 12 v. power brick?  The chip is an  Intel Celestron D which appears to have peak power needs of less than 120 watts.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article601-page1.html

There are certain advantages--at least in my present setup--to hold on to the desk top box.  It is in a closet, near the audio components, and I have a long video cord that lets me put the monitor near the listening position. I also have an Gyro air mouse and wireless keyboard. Even though the computer is quiet, I hear nothing at all from where it is located.  The computer has a firewire card, so I can use it for some of the outboard tasks (the only way I have to play CDs without ripping now is through an outboard CD drive), and I need several usb ports for two hard drives and the air mouse and a flash drive. I rip CDs from a laptop to a big flash drive and copy to hard drives connected to the server. Again, as a matter of convenience.  Ripping on the server in the closet is rather awkward.

Thanks again.

   Don

[Vinnie R.]

Is there any reason the PicoPSU would not run from an SLA as well as from a 12 v. power brick?

Hi Don,

Sure, you can use an SLA.  However, if you want a decent amount of play time, you are going to need a BIG one! 

How big depends on how much power your computer draws (load current) and how long you want to play between charges.  A SMART module would be helpful in case you forget to turn it off... otherwise you'll kill your large SLA battery (which would be a waste because it is not cheap).  Our SMART module can be configured for a 12V system. 

I don't know how clean that PicoPSU board is (how much electrical noise does it pass to the load via its DC-DC conversion process).

Perhaps more info can be found.

Vinnie

[dbyrd]

Thanks Vinnie--

I don't know how much power this machine uses.  Not much, I think.
I have pulled out the internal CD drive, and the graphics card is very minimal.
There is not much left. Dell must think it runs very cool.  The only
fan seems to be on the psu.

I have actually heard a server using this power supply and a 100 w
power brick.  It sounded great, just using the audio out from a Lynx
sound card.  They don't cost much. I may try one on AC.  That
at least get the ac out of the box. And if all goes well, I will have
you make me a SMART unit for it.

Looking forward to seeing the details on the Isabella.

   Don

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hey Guys - Interesting conversation, I'm enjoying it. I'm also a firm believer that music servers and vinyl will be the only sources left in the not to distant future. I'll never purchase another physical disc player. I've been thinking of adding a solid state drive to my MacBook Pro and moding my 30" cinema display into a touch screen so I can rival a Sooloos system for a fraction of the price. For me USB DACs are where it's at right now. I think Ethernet ports on DACs will appearing with greater regularity in the near future. Things are only getting better for us audiophiles!

[satfrat]

Sounds to me like you need a good balanced power conditioner for your computer,,, maybe a good OneAC transformer conditioner w/battery backup in case of a power outage. I had one that I used to good effect before simply plugging my HTPC into my BPT along wit the rest of my gear. Unless you're using batteries, a good power conditioner for rotten AC is a good thing to have for a computer. 

Cheers,
Robin

[dbyrd]

Unless you're using batteries, a good power conditioner for rotten AC is a good thing to have for a computer.

Robin, I have a good power conditioner. And still have problems, which is the reason I am hoping to get off the grid altogether.  I live two blocks from the NYS Capitol in Albany, and appear to be on the same cirucit as the state government.  This has its advantages.  During the last blackout, my neigborhood was one of the few not to lose power.  I happened to be sitting in the listening room, and I heard the relays in the power conditioner click.  I looked up, the LED on the conditioner were jittering, the lights dem, the audio system burped, but everything held.

At any rate, I blame it all on the state. 

   don

[satfrat]

Unless you're using batteries, a good power conditioner for rotten AC is a good thing to have for a computer.

Robin, I have a good power conditioner. And still have problems, which is the reason I am hoping to get off the grid altogether.  I live two blocks from the NYS Capitol in Albany, and appear to be on the same cirucit as the state government.  This has its advantages.  During the last blackout, my neigborhood was one of the few not to lose power.  I happened to be sitting in the listening room, and I heard the relays in the power conditioner click.  I looked up, the LED on the conditioner were jittering, the lights dem, the audio system burped, but everything held.

At any rate, I blame it all on the state. 

   don

Hey, we're practically neighbors, me living in Rutland, Vermont.  Well I guess you go with what works and that's definitely batteries for you unless you are able to actually locate the cause of your hum. Stocking up on car batteries would probably be easier. 
I've got over 300 albums on my hard drives so far myself & my audio has never sounded better. 

Cheers,
Robin

[dwk]

Thanks Vinnie--

I don't know how much power this machine uses.  Not much, I think.
I have pulled out the internal CD drive, and the graphics card is very minimal.
There is not much left. Dell must think it runs very cool.  The only
fan seems to be on the psu.

It might be worth picking up a Kill-A-Watt meter to get a feel for what it's drawing.
My guess is that if it's drawing more than 40-50 watts (which is still quite low for a normal PC) then battery power will be tough. Not impossible, but you'd only be looking at a couple hours of run time unless you went for a pretty serious battery bank.

I recently looked at revamping my PC playback system around a pico-psu powered Intel D201GLY2. Even with a notebook drive, this type of system should be ~25W or so, which should work well with a battery setup. The intel board is so cheap ($75) that even a full build from the ground up including a nice case is under $400 (not including high-end soundcard), which doesn't seem that bad.

One thing to keep in mind is that there are two different types of pico-psu - one that regulates the 12V line (designed for automotive applications where the alternators put out 14+V) and one that simply passes the 12V untouched. I still haven't figured out whether the slightly higher than 12V output of an SLA will be a problem if you're using the unregulated version. I suspect it'll be OK, but I'm not sure.

[dbyrd]

Robin / dwk--

The problem is not hum as such. I am talking about something one hears
only with the volume cranked up all the way and ones ear right in the speaker.
I don't think 60 cycles is even a component of it. It is weird rf of some kind. 

And, of course, if I would try to battery power the PC, I would also need
enough batteries to run a couple of 500gb harddrives (and they are
fairly close to full--have never been able to convince myself that the
lossless format sound as good as WAVs). 

I spend more time thinking about this stuff than doing anything--mostly
when my mind is otherwise empty at the gym.  My primary intention is to
learn enough that in two or three years I can put together a PC transport
that will be maximum convenience and feed the best possible signal to
the Red Wine gear. There are still some serious deficiencies.  There is not
really outstanding playback software.  I use j. river and like its interface, but
compared to Wavelab it is not good. (Of course, wavelab is editing software,
and you have to load files one at a time.). 

I would probably be better off with Mac stuff.  I have heard that Itunes
performs better on Macs than on PCs.  On PCs it is not as good as j. river,
Foobar, or Winamp, to my ears.

Don't get me wrong: the "problem" I am dealing with cannot be heard from
my listening position.  After using noisy tube gear all my life, however, I find
the quiet of off-the-grid gear completely compelling.

My biggest single problem as an audiophile cannot be solved: much of the
music that interests me most was badly recorded. I think  I can recover
much of what John Coltrane sounded like, when he was at his best, but
there are miserably few decent recordings of Charlie Parker or early Monk.

The partially modified S-70s sound fantastic.  I run them directly from an ancient
Timbre tt-1 DAC, which still does a beautiful job. Before I went to PC audio,
I had used a Genesis digital lens anti-jitter device. which always seemed to
me to make a great improvement, but if anything, it took a little something off
the signal from the PC.  So even with a simple usb/xlr converter, jitter
doesn't seem to be a serious problem. In fact, the quality is so good and the
convenience is so great, I find I just don't play as much vinyl as I used to.

Best, Don

[Fork]

Can someone help clarify this quote from Vinny?

If you need more hard drive space, and external USB hard drive is something that can be added (and an SLA battery power supply for this is something that is doable).

If you are set on using your current PC, you might want to try using the optical output (TOSLINK) to feed the Isabella's internal dac.  At least this way, the noise of the PC will be isolated from the Isabella dac/preamp + Sig 70.2s + Speakers.  This is true for other sources such as the Squeezebox, DVD/CD transports, etc. 

Would I be correct in assuming that using the Toslink in this setup will also isolate the noise from the external hard drive or any other connected devices (I'm guessing that's right and maybe the SLA for the external drive was a separate thought).

Also, I've been thinking about the Squeezebox (or Linksys Music Bridge) in combination with the Isabella, because I have that common situation where I want to get the music to the other side of the room where the stereo is.  I'm wondering if a desktop-WiFi Transmitter-Squeezebox-Toslink-Isabella chain (as opposed to a laptop-USB-Isabella chain) creates any compromises in the audio quality, like added Jitter from the Squeezebox or something like that.


Cheers

[jkelly]

I have a car PC that uses a 12v-12v power supply.
One + goes to the car battery and the other + goes
to the ignition.  When the car is started the PS boots
the PC up and when you turn off the car the PS starts
a smooth shutdown.

Maybe that can help with your PC 12V PS requirements?

Here are some examples:

http://store.mp3car.com/Automotive_12v_Power_Supplies_s/2.htm

Jeff