[JH]

Eh? I'm not 'Rick Craig' if that's what you mean. Yes, I'm new here. I haven't posted often, mostly just read things. There is a lot to look at here but my time is limited.

For whatever it's worth, my question simple comes from honest curiosity.
JH

p.s. my real name is John by the way.

[Danny Richie]

John if you are an honest guy that really wants to learn something then I will spend whatever time you want answering your questions.

You can call me up and I'll answer all that you can ask me. Better yet, you can e-mail me a number and a good time to call and I'll call you up on my dime and answer all your questions.

As stated above though, I am not answering Rick's questions. He has copied me enough already, and there are some things that he just needs to figure out on his own.

[Chops]

I'm just curious... What are some of the basic specs on the OB-7 and are there any listening reviews anywhere about them?

It's funny, late last night before hitting the sack, I was looking around on AudioGon at some of the super expensive loudspeakers on there, and still none of them interest me the way these OB-7's do. Most of those big money speakers just seem like cookie-cutter designs, only in different enclosures. Very boring stuff.

I'm looking forward to getting a pair of these OB-7's for myself, and eventually a matching center channel as well. 

[Bill Baker]

Hi Chops,
 If you don't mind reading some views from someone who builds these speakers, here is one of my threads where I have written some inital impressions on our OB-7 Deluxe. I now have a good number of hours on the speakers but haven't yet had the time to sit down and write my review.

My initial listening impressions are on the first page about 3/4 down the page.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=50778.0

[pbrstreetgang]

I was on a hunt for used high end speakers and prepared to spend 5-7K on some of the high end design with retail prices topping over 13K. I was trying to get a ton of performance for my money and I traveled and listened for about a year to many highly regarded commercial designs. My travels led me to Dannys one day and he was nice enough to give me all the time I needed with the OB7s- they were actually the OB7 plus but the woofer section could be switched off effectively making them OB7s. It didnt take too long to realize these were what I was looking for in terms of performance and offered amazing value for the price- I bought the kit on the spot and commissioned Denny (Daygloworange) to build and finish custom cabinets. I saved a ton and while Im still waiting on the cabinets but I am very excited.

FYI the bass output was very good for me but if you are a line array man you might want a sub. Also the LS9s I heard were flat out spectacular and I have written reviews here on the circles. I felt they offered everything the OB7s did with spectacular full range bass but for me I couldnt get away with a speaker that big. Wish I had the room size for them but the OB7 offer a lot of the magic in a smaller size with less low end (in terms of extension).

[Daygloworange]

I'm just curious... What are some of the basic specs on the OB-7 and are there any listening reviews anywhere about them?

I'm looking forward to getting a pair of these OB-7's for myself, and eventually a matching center channel as well. 

Chops,

Go back a handful of pages in the GR Research circle, and you'll find a lot of reviews on the OB 5's in particular. The OB 5 and OB 7 share the exact same MTM section, with only the woofer section being different.

As a matter of fact, Danny might be showing our custom OB 7's (with the new servo subs) at this coming year's RMAF.

Ask Bill from Response Audio about them, as Response Audio have recently switched to these as their reference speaker.

Here are a couple of links to check out:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=42688.0

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=46611.0

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=31630.30

You'll see me blab on and on about them.

How good are they?

Real good. Among the best you'll hear, without needing to rob a bank.

No hype. Listen to them, and then take me to task if you don't like them.

My reference speakers in my 24bit digital recording studio are OB 5's with the PR Sub (when time allows, I will upgrade to OB 7's and the new GR servo subs. I wouldn't settle for anything less than a world class reference speaker in my studio. If there was a better speaker out there, I would buy it, let alone build it.

Why won't I have our custom versions of the GR LS-9's in my studio? Size and weight. I couldn't get them down the stairs and around the corner, and through the doorway. That's the main reason. The other is simply that a lot of people (non-audiophile) own 3 way speakers, and I want to be aware of that when I'm mixing, as it influences how I mix.

Cheers

[Chops]

Hi Chops,
 If you don't mind reading some views from someone who builds these speakers, here is one of my threads where I have written some inital impressions on our OB-7 Deluxe. I now have a good number of hours on the speakers but haven't yet had the time to sit down and write my review.

My initial listening impressions are on the first page about 3/4 down the page.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=50778.0

Hi Bill,

I respect your views quite a bit. In fact, because of your past review(s) of the Usher Audio D2, I decided to build clones of them using the Usher 15HM drivers and Altec 511B horns/902-8B drivers. However, before I ever got around to building the enclosures, I ended up building open baffles just to "break in" the drivers. Funny thing is, that's as far as the cloning process got! LOL After I heard them in the OB's, that was it! Those 15HM drivers are amazing in an OB setup and hit a very solid mid-30Hz eventhough they need some EQ to do it. But I am selling them off ONLY because they are so huge and take up way too much room in my small-ish 13x17x8 room. But I tell you what, those HM drivers produce some very smooth and intoxicating lower midrange, especially in OB's.

That whole OB experience is the major reason I am so hyped-up over these OB-7's. Well, that and the use of all the small 5.25" drivers to maintain a nice fast speedy delivery of sound throughout the entire operating range and the small footprint.

BTW, thanks for the link! I read it from beginning to end...TWICE! 

-Charles

[Chops]

FYI the bass output was very good for me but if you are a line array man you might want a sub. Also the LS9s I heard were flat out spectacular and I have written reviews here on the circles. I felt they offered everything the OB7s did with spectacular full range bass but for me I couldnt get away with a speaker that big. Wish I had the room size for them but the OB7 offer a lot of the magic in a smaller size with less low end (in terms of extension).

That's what I'm still trying to figure out is the actual bass performance. The OB-7 can't really be compared to the OB-5 in that respect since one is ported and the other isn't. From what it sounds like by reading in the provided links above, the OB-5's actually have deeper bass, but the 7's have more tunefull, detailed bass. That really doesn't surprise me that much considering there's 4 drivers sharing the work load, plus on top of that in a sealed enclosure. That is very important to me, however so is bass extension. The thing I have about it is that I prefer to listen to music without the sub if the mains are capable enough. Believe it or not, there IS a difference in stereo bass compared to mono bass. Don't get me wrong, I know the OB-7's can't blow the walls down with bass, but if they are able to reach down into the mid-40's or so with room gain, I'm sure I'd be happy with that.

I've never heard a line array before, but from what I've read, I'm 100% sure I would love the sound of them. I wish I had the room in my wallet for the LS-9's!

[Chops]

I'm just curious... What are some of the basic specs on the OB-7 and are there any listening reviews anywhere about them?

I'm looking forward to getting a pair of these OB-7's for myself, and eventually a matching center channel as well. 

Chops,

Go back a handful of pages in the GR Research circle, and you'll find a lot of reviews on the OB 5's in particular. The OB 5 and OB 7 share the exact same MTM section, with only the woofer section being different.

As a matter of fact, Danny might be showing our custom OB 7's (with the new servo subs) at this coming year's RMAF.

Ask Bill from Response Audio about them, as Response Audio have recently switched to these as their reference speaker.

Here are a couple of links to check out:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=42688.0

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=46611.0

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=31630.30

You'll see me blab on and on about them.

How good are they?

Real good. Among the best you'll hear, without needing to rob a bank.

No hype. Listen to them, and then take me to task if you don't like them.

My reference speakers in my 24bit digital recording studio are OB 5's with the PR Sub (when time allows, I will upgrade to OB 7's and the new GR servo subs. I wouldn't settle for anything less than a world class reference speaker in my studio. If there was a better speaker out there, I would buy it, let alone build it.

Why won't I have our custom versions of the GR LS-9's in my studio? Size and weight. I couldn't get them down the stairs and around the corner, and through the doorway. That's the main reason. The other is simply that a lot of people (non-audiophile) own 3 way speakers, and I want to be aware of that when I'm mixing, as it influences how I mix.

Cheers

Again, thanks for the links! I read every one of them and just might go back and read them again.

Why won't I have our custom versions of the GR LS-9's in my studio? Size and weight. I couldn't get them down the stairs and around the corner, and through the doorway.

If I had your skills, I'd just build the darn things IN the studio! LOL  Seriously though, how is the OB-5/7 any better at helping you mix if their xover is so seemless between the drivers? At least, that's what I've read...  aa

One other thing I wanted to ask... When I get the OB-7's ordered and I go for the upgraded M-130X drivers, do I get them just for the "woofer" section or also upgrade the OB section as well? The reason I ask is because if they are only reproducing midrange frequencies, do they benefit from the XBL technology as well? I imagine so, but figured I'd ask anyway.

Thanks again,
-Charles

[pbrstreetgang]

130X on the woofers only the OB MRs dont come in the "x" designation- different impedence. Also Bill builds crossovers with bass management to tailor the low end output also tweeter level control. I know you are thinking about using the digital xover but the option is there

[Chops]

130X on the woofers only the OB MRs dont come in the "x" designation- different impedence. Also Bill builds crossovers with bass management to tailor the low end output also tweeter level control. I know you are thinking about using the digital xover but the option is there

Yes, I forgot that the mids are 16 ohms each. 

Actually, I'll be purchasing the entire OB-7 kit with upgraded drivers, so I will be using the provided passive crossover network. No point in screwing up a perfect design with me trying to dial these in with a digital crossover.

[Daygloworange]

That's what I'm still trying to figure out is the actual bass performance. The OB-7 can't really be compared to the OB-5 in that respect since one is ported and the other isn't. From what it sounds like by reading in the provided links above, the OB-5's actually have deeper bass, but the 7's have more tunefull, detailed bass. That really doesn't surprise me that much considering there's 4 drivers sharing the work load, plus on top of that in a sealed enclosure. That is very important to me, however so is bass extension. The thing I have about it is that I prefer to listen to music without the sub if the mains are capable enough. Believe it or not, there IS a difference in stereo bass compared to mono bass. Don't get me wrong, I know the OB-7's can't blow the walls down with bass, but if they are able to reach down into the mid-40's or so with room gain, I'm sure I'd be happy with that.

I've never heard a line array before, but from what I've read, I'm 100% sure I would love the sound of them. I wish I had the room in my wallet for the LS-9's!

If you want to run without a subwoofer, the OB 7 will be bass shy. The OB 7's start to roll off in the 80 to 90 Hz range. They do it gradually due to the sealed box configuration. The integration with a subwoofer is a tad better than than with the OB 5.

Without a sub, the OB 7's seem like they play softly into the 40's, but will be down in output there, but when you play the OB 5's (without a sub)next to them, the OB 5's pull ahead in bass extension. They feel like they play solidly in the mid to low 30's with room gain. The OB 5's will definitely rattle things in the room. Except for total full range bass junkies, the OB 5's alone will satisfy just about anyone's bass expectations.

When you put some SPL on them, the OB 7's really start to pull away in terms of clean, sharp, impactful bass, but not in extension.

Chops, based on your musical tastes leaning towards classical, I don't think the OB 7's without subs would satisfy you, because of the bass roll off. With the new servo subs, it would be a world class full range speaker system.

The line arrays are so clean sounding, it's almost beyond description. They image astonishingly well, and their low end extension is devastating. Since you enjoyed reading the reviews of the OB 5's and 7's, here are a some independant reviews from some very experienced and critical audiophiles on our custom CLS-9 versions of the GR LS-9:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=48324.0

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=48806.0

Cheers

[Chops]

If you want to run without a subwoofer, the OB 7 will be bass shy. The OB 7's start to roll off in the 80 to 90 Hz range. They do it gradually due to the sealed box configuration. The integration with a subwoofer is a tad better than than with the OB 5.

Without a sub, the OB 7's seem like they play into the 40's, but when you play the OB 5's (without a sub)next to them, the OB 5's pull ahead in bass extension. They feel like they play solidly in the mid to low 30's with room gain. The OB 5's will definitely rattle things in the room. Except for total full range bass junkies, the OB 5's alone will satisfy just about anyone's bass expectations.

When you put some SPL on them, the OB 7's really start to pull away in terms of clean, sharp, impactful bass, but not in extension.

Chops, based on your musical tastes leaning towards classical, I don't think the OB 7's without subs would satisfy you, because of the bass roll off. With the new servo subs, it would be a world class full range speaker system.

The line arrays are so clean sounding, it's almost beyond description. They image astonishingly well, and their low end extension is devastating. Since you enjoyed reading the reviews of the OB 5's and 7's, here are a some independant reviews from some very experienced and critical audiophiles on our custom CLS-9 versions of the GR LS-9:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=48324.0

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=48806.0

Cheers

Hmm... What about doing a hybrid OB-7 with a ported bass section? Twice as many drivers as the OB-5, it should be able to extend down just as much if not just a bit more and still have better power handling and control, right?

OR... Why not just go with the OB-5 (with the upgraded M-130X drivers of course) then? The OB-5 kit would save me a bit more money and get me the lower extension I would like. So many decisions!! 

And thanks for those links, however I've already read both of them! 

[Danny Richie]

Hmm... What about doing a hybrid OB-7 with a ported bass section?

Sure, but you'll need to double the air space, and that would get a bit large.

OR... Why not just go with the OB-5 (with the upgraded M-130X drivers of course) then?

I only have the X series drivers in 8 ohms. The lower woofers in the OB-5 are 16 ohm woofers.

[Chops]

Hmm... What about doing a hybrid OB-7 with a ported bass section?

Sure, but you'll need to double the air space, and that would get a bit large.

OR... Why not just go with the OB-5 (with the upgraded M-130X drivers of course) then?

I only have the X series drivers in 8 ohms. The lower woofers in the OB-5 are 16 ohm woofers.

Well lets see, the stock OB-7 bass section is what, roughly 1.5cf gross (about 1.1cf net after driver and bracing displacement)?

According to WinISD Pro, for a ported enclosure tuned to 48Hz, it would be 2.1cf net, probably about 2.5-2.6 gross after driver, bracing and port displacement. However, if you take your recommendations of 0.45cf per M-130X driver, that would come out to 1.8cf ported net (around 2.2-2.3 gross). I don't know, that wouldn't be that much larger. I could go a bit wider and a bit deeper on the bass section.

What do you think? I'm actually starting to think I should just leave well enough alone and use them as is, since you do know better than I. 

[Hank]

just leave well enough alone and use them as is, since you do know better than I

NOW you're thinkin'  aa

[Chops]

I'm not too sure on what to do.

I know the OB-7's will probably sound better than anything I've heard before as far as midrange and top-end are concerned, but I'm starting to find it hard to justify the cost of building a pair of these for $1500+ with a total of 8 woofers that run out of steam at 80Hz. I mean, heck, my brother's little $159 6.5" 2-way kit bookshelf speakers from Parts Express will easily loaf around in the 30Hz range all day long, even when powered by 22 watts of 6L6 tubes. They don't even sound half bad in the midrange and treble for that matter. Even you own A/V-1 reaches down to 55Hz with a single M-130!

I don't know. I'm not trying to be a kill joy here or knock the OB-7's, not at all. I'm just debating on what I should do. $1500 may not be a lot to some, but it is to me so I need to make sure I make the right decision.

[pbrstreetgang]

Your overthinking and paper racing too much. If you require lots of output in the 20-40Hz range then line arrays or outboard subs are right for you. The OB7s have great punch and bass output just not pipe organs and the kind of bass absent in a lot of music- though I understand you like classical so your going to have to see if the OB7s will work for you. What 20-40HZ output levels do you measure with your OBs?

Also as you know just because something has a FR that is lower doesnt mean there is lots of output there.

[Chops]

Your overthinking and paper racing too much. If you require lots of output in the 20-40Hz range then line arrays or outboard subs are right for you. The OB7s have great punch and bass output just not pipe organs and the kind of bass absent in a lot of music- though I understand you like classical so your going to have to see if the OB7s will work for you. What 20-40HZ output levels do you measure with your OBs?

Also as you know just because something has a FR that is lower doesnt mean there is lots of output there.

I like all types of music, not just classical and pipe organ. But even then, with today's recordings, it doesn't matter what type of music you listen to because in a lot of it there is plenty of useful information down into the low 30's, upper to mid 20's, depending on the type of music and style of recording. But I don't care about the main channels necessarily playing that low, just as long as there's good output down into the 40's at least. 40Hz coverage would take care of just about all music types to a point. Honestly, I don't know why people still insist on saying that most music doesn't have anything below 50Hz or so, because these days it just isn't true.

I already have a fairly decent DIY sub. It's sealed with two 15's in a push/pull configuration and a 1000w Crown amp powering it. It is very clean and accurate with plenty of detail and integrates perfectly with any speaker that I have joined with it so far. Even if I had two of them for stereo reproduction, it still doesn't sound the same as the main channels reproducing everything on their own.

Yes, I'm quite aware that the FR doesn't always mean that's what you're going to get. Depending on the room, placement and your seating position, it could be considerably more or less than rated.

As for my open baffles, they have very usable output into the low 30Hz range, maybe even the high 20's (with EQ of course). Without EQ, they fall off fast below 70-80Hz.

[pbrstreetgang]

Your overthinking and paper racing too much. If you require lots of output in the 20-40Hz range then line arrays or outboard subs are right for you. The OB7s have great punch and bass output just not pipe organs and the kind of bass absent in a lot of music- though I understand you like classical so your going to have to see if the OB7s will work for you. What 20-40HZ output levels do you measure with your OBs?

Also as you know just because something has a FR that is lower doesnt mean there is lots of output there.

I like all types of music, not just classical and pipe organ. But even then, with today's recordings, it doesn't matter what type of music you listen to because in a lot of it there is plenty of useful information down into the low 30's, upper to mid 20's, depending on the type of music and style of recording. But I don't care about the main channels necessarily playing that low, just as long as there's good output down into the 40's at least. 40Hz coverage would take care of just about all music types to a point. Honestly, I don't know why people still insist on saying that most music doesn't have anything below 50Hz or so, because these days it just isn't true.

I agree there is content, and Im not arguing that. Just like you said useable output to ~40HZ would take care of just about all types of music while not drawing attention to lack of output from the mains as well as allow great integration with a sub for full range content

I already have a fairly decent DIY sub. It's sealed with two 15's in a push/pull configuration and a 1000w Crown amp powering it. It is very clean and accurate with plenty of detail and integrates perfectly with any speaker that I have joined with it so far. Even if I had two of them for stereo reproduction, it still doesn't sound the same as the main channels reproducing everything on their own.

I cant agree with you here, there is a time I was of the same thinking but not anymore. With the right subs and proper placement a sub integration is as good and most times better than close to full range floorstandersnot necessary in the bass but the system and presentation as a whole Im sure you know this. The reason I think line arrays work so well and I feel better than say a big floorstander is the same size of the drivers and of course their low distortion

Yes, I'm quite aware that the FR doesn't always mean that's what you're going to get. Depending on the room, placement and your seating position, it could be considerably more or less than rated.

As for my open baffles, they have very usable output into the low 30Hz range, maybe even the high 20's (with EQ of course). Without EQ, they fall off fast below 70-80Hz.