[Double Ugly]

Can you recommend a good 3 way speaker for electronica music? 

Sure...

here's three recommendations:
salk ht3
thiel 3.5
thiel 3.6

... all priced beyond what I understand your budget to be.  You've requested recommendations for a 3-way speaker that performs at an unrealistic level given your expressed budget, thus the diversion into the sub and other 2-way speaker recommendations.  IME, the speaker you want doesn't exist.

The majority of respondents disagree with (1) your perception of 2-way speakers, (2) the supposed advantage of 3-way speakers, (3) your perception of subs, and (4) the assertion that you can spend so little and get so much.  Though it may appear otherwise from your perspective, those who've replied to your posts have attempted to assist you in making an intelligent, informed decision. 

When someone requests recommendations for a *thing* perceived as unrealistic, folk are prone to offer alternative solutions, and the helpful ones go so far as to provide justifications (price, performance, etc.) for their suggestions.  IMHO, most who've participated in this thread have been very helpful.

Again, virtually every response has been in reference to an alternative to your proposed solution; interesting, no?  It is to me, but oddly enough, it doesn't appear to interest you at all.

But in the end, it's still your money.  Mistakes can be expensive, but those which adversely affect the bank account aren't often forgotten.

[miklorsmith]

Cerwin Vegas - FOUR 15s will get your bass on, dawg.



Simply the biggest, baddest tower on the market, the CLS-215 features two cast frame high excursion 15" woofers and delivers earth-shaking bass down to 24 Hz. With guaranteed "eviction notice" performance, the CLS-215 also features a 6½" mid-range speaker and a 1" soft dome tweeter coupled to a proprietary waveguide.

[doug s.]

Can you recommend a good 3 way speaker for electronica music? 

Sure...

here's three recommendations:
salk ht3
thiel 3.5
thiel 3.6

... all priced beyond what I understand your budget to be.  You've requested recommendations for a 3-way speaker that performs at an unrealistic level given your expressed budget, thus the diversion into the sub and other 2-way speaker recommendations.  IME, the speaker you want doesn't exist.

the salks, yes, the thiels, no.

the 3.5's, rated -2db at 20hz, can typically be found used for $500-$800 in good shape.  yes, these speakers really will go that low.  but my 3.5's still sounded better when i crossed them to a dedicated subwoofer system.   

the 3.6's are rated -2db at 29hz.  you will give up a few hz, compared to the 3.5's, but you get a better sounding speaker top-to-bottom.  not that the 3.5's are slouches, mind you.  i don't know any full-range speaker that can compete w/them at the prices they are now selling for.  they still are an amazing sounding speaker, imo.  back to the 3.6's - they do not use an outbaord eq, which comes standard w/the 3.5's, & asking prices for them are usually in the $1500 range...

doug s.

[doug s.]

Cerwin Vegas - FOUR 15s will get your bass on, dawg.

and, from 50hz on up, in a 13x13 room, will they compare to the totem forests?  i never heard the c/v's, but i'd suspect not...

doug s.

[doug s.]

ya know, as the c/v's retail for only $500, there would be a bit of money left over for an active outboard eq - they might not sound too shabby if/when eq'd...

doug s.

[miklorsmith]

I would guess they're not as good above 50 hz, but that doesn't seem to be the concern.  Also, these will handle your amps fo' sho'.  Did you see eviction notice guarantee?  That's pfat.

Actually Soundstage! reviewed 'em and thought they were pretty nice.

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/cerwinvega_cls215.htm

[Double Ugly]

the salks, yes, the thiels, no.

the 3.5's, rated -2db at 20hz, can typically be found used for $500-$800 in good shape.  yes, these speakers really will go that low.  but my 3.5's still sounded better when i crossed them to a dedicated subwoofer system.   

Thanks for the correction.

Nevertheless, given the OP's desires (deepest bass for electronica), I doubt even the 3.5s would satisfy without sub support.  They aren't known to play deeply and loudly, thus at least part of the reason for your success with subs.

'Course, being the sub freak you are, I imagine no speaker on earth would be safe from your dual subs. 

FWIW, I *still* say the better solution is to (1) go with subs or (2) a more capable 2-way.  I hope you prove me wrong, but I simply don't believe the 3-ways available at your price point (and possibly well beyond) will satisfy your wants, earwig.

[doug s.]

in a 13x13 room, thiel 3.5's will go loud enough and deep enough...

but, in a 13x13 room, excellent 2-way or 3-way speakers will sound better w/a pair of subs...  imo of course...   

doug s.

the salks, yes, the thiels, no.

the 3.5's, rated -2db at 20hz, can typically be found used for $500-$800 in good shape.  yes, these speakers really will go that low.  but my 3.5's still sounded better when i crossed them to a dedicated subwoofer system.   

Thanks for the correction.

Nevertheless, given the OP's desires (deepest bass for electronica), I doubt even the 3.5s would satisfy without sub support.  They aren't known to play deeply and loudly, thus at least part of the reason for your success with subs.

'Course, being the sub freak you are, I imagine no speaker on earth would be safe from your dual subs. 

FWIW, I *still* say the better solution is to (1) go with subs or (2) a more capable 2-way.  I hope you prove me wrong, but I simply don't believe the 3-ways available at your price point (and possibly well beyond) will satisfy your wants, earwig.

[satfrat]

window curtainsAs for subwoofers,they dont seem to me good for music much but if you love home theater they are excellant and definitly recommended any ht systems.

IF? you've never owned one, how can you make this statement?  Personally, I totally disagree with you. You simply need a fast reacting subwoofer that's musical in nature. There's lots to chose from including that Yamaha sub with it's 8" driver that Doug suggested. I really like my 10" ACI Force XL for both music and HT.

Cheers,
Robin

fyi, the subs i recommended - the yamaha yst-sw305's - have two 8" servo-controlled drivers, not one...

fwiw,

doug s.

My humble apology and all the better having two 8" drivers,  , plus considering this man's budget, his need for both a musical subwoofer, and one that will complement electronica, either 1 or better yet 2 of these relatively cheap Yamaha subwoofers is all that's really needed for those 2-ways IMHO (and as you have already stated for the gentleman Doug).  Granted they are not the last word in low Hz but neither will any 3-way loudspeaker in his price range that he might possibly still not be happy with. Pretty much all reasonably priced 2 & 3 way loudspeakers will benefit from an active subwoofer, IF for no other reason than to take the load off the loudspeaker so it can more effiecently concentrate it's efforts on the midrange.
Yes earwig, you were asking for a 3-way alternative BUT you were also looking for a solution for better electronica. Fact is a sub is a proven solution for both a 2-way or a 3-way loudspeaker unless you're willing to spend the money & climb the food chain to a much better  loudspeaker than your budget seems to indicate. Just out of curiosity earwig, what 3 -way loudspeaker do you have in mind? Care to share,,,,?   

Cheers,
Robin

[nodiak]

earwig, believe it or not I can relate to where you are coming from, having gone through the same desire for a non sub speaker system to play below 20 hz in a powerful but relaxed manner. I don't know if the 3 way you want is out there so I can't comment on that.
I would suggest your next step is to find out if there is a sub you can listen to so you can learn if you want to go that approach. If you post the general area you live in maybe someone reading this thread can demo their sub. Or maybe there is a hifi store with the Yamaha or others suggested.
Obviously you aren't into taking a leap of faith from the suggestions given, so a logical next move is to hear a good sub(s)for yourself. There is a gigantic difference is sound quality between a good audio sub and the slow boomy subs that have often been used in cars and for home theatre. Because those bad subs are so prevelant it is easy to understand your hesitancy to believe us when we tell you there are  good, tight, musical subs out there that will keep you from destroying your 2 ways and make it possible to hear what those lowest octave notes actually sound and feel like.
If you put a good sub in your system you will be shocked how the whole thing changes when the strain is relieved from your 2 ways and the whole soundscape opens up and becomes both more airy and delicate, as well as full and powerful.
You could probably find out for yourself within a day or two.
Don 

[bunky]

I am running a pair of stand mounted Usher V-601 two ways with a modded tube amp and a new Epik Valor 15" sealed subwoofer and the combination has clarity and musical bass in spades

[SET Man]

Hey!
 
   First I have to admit that I didn't read the whole thing. But I'm just curious.

  earwig, what speaker are you using again?
 
  And can you list some of this electronica music, artist and album you are listening to?

Take care,
Buddy

[earwig]

Its just a 13x13ft room! I wouldn't want too much bass swamping out all the other frequencies by extending deep bass with the use of large subwoofers.  Actually I'd want to keep the bass as taut as possible especially with such strongly bloated bass that electronica presents. In my experience I've had a hell of a time trying to keep it as taut and controlled as possible.In a small room big subwoofers would only exasperate the problem.I'd rather tighten or even roll it off a bit to balance the frequencies out more.I'm not looking for big bass extension, I was concerned about the durability of my speakers and thinking of a change to 3 drivers to improve durability, that's all. If I was to keep my small speakers then I would have to get a small subwoofer to offer stress relief to the single woofered two driver speakers for better reliabilty.Yes Thiels are good sounding speakers .Im also in favour of the Snell D7 two woofer front driver configuration.Its full range sound speaker and is priced quite reasonable within budjet.A higher end alternative I feel would be the most ideal for me is a Dynaudio Contour 1.8 mk2 or a Proac Studio 140 for example.A totum storm subwoofer would a nice match. Considering most peoples consensus on this forum Ill need to go check a sub out.Thanks

[doug s.]

check out a pair of subs.  it will make placement even easier, in your small room.  no, your subs do not have to be big.   

doug s.

Its just a 13x13ft room! I wouldn't want too much bass swamping out all the other frequencies by extending deep bass with the use of large subwoofers.  Actually I'd want to keep the bass as taut as possible especially with such strongly bloated bass that electronica presents. In my experience I've had a hell of a time trying to keep it as taut and controlled as possible.In a small room big subwoofers would only exasperate the problem.I'd rather tighten or even roll it off a bit to balance the frequencies out more.I'm not looking for big bass extension, I was concerned about the durability of my speakers and thinking of a change to 3 drivers to improve durability, that's all. If I was to keep my small speakers then I would have to get a small subwoofer to offer stress relief to the single woofered two driver speakers for better reliabilty.Yes Thiels are good sounding speakers .Im also in favour of the Snell D7 two woofer front driver configuration.Its full range sound speaker and is priced quite reasonable within budjet.A higher end alternative I feel would be the most ideal for me is a Dynaudio Contour 1.8 mk2 or a Proac Studio 140 for example.A totum storm subwoofer would a nice match. Considering most peoples consensus on this forum Ill need to go check a sub out.Thanks

[satfrat]

For a 13' square room, 1 subwoofer is more than enough,,,, even one of those Yamaha subwoofers with an 8" driver that Doug s had mentioned years ago would work just fine. But if that sub is as cheap was it was when Doug first brought it up, then 2 Yamahas would most certainly not overpower a small room such as yours. What model subwoofer was that again Doug? 

Cheers,
Robin

[doug s.]

robin, you miss my point, when i say you need two subs, even in a small room.  two subs will give better room loading vs using one sub.  if one sub can energize the room, then using two means they're turned down more, for energizing the room the same.  this also means less distortion.   

the yst-sw305's are what i mentioned earlier in this thread.  they're nla new; you would have to find them used.  the replacements - yst-sw315 - uses a single down-firing 10" driver; they have the same specs, iirc...  best price i find is $212 shipped, brand-new:
http://www.appliancebestbuys.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=69262&utm_source=Bizrate_Shopzilla&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=Bizrate_Shopzilla

doug s.

For a 13' square room, 1 subwoofer is more than enough,,,, even one of those Yamaha subwoofers with an 8" driver that Doug s had mentioned years ago would work just fine. But if that sub is as cheap was it was when Doug first brought it up, then 2 Yamahas would most certainly not overpower a small room such as yours. What model subwoofer was that again Doug? 

Cheers,
Robin

[Duke]

On the tangential topic of one sub vs two subs, let me offer a few comments.

The main problem of bass reproduction in small rooms is quality, not quantity.  The bass is typically lumpy due to large room-induced peaks and dips.  By using two or more low frequency sources spread around the room somewhat asymmetrically, the low frequency response can be smoothed out.  Each individual sub will excite the room’s modes in a different way.  While the response of each would still have peaks and dips, the total combined response will be much smoother than any one of the individual responses.  So the net result is a smoother and more natural-sounding low-frequency soundfield.   Not only will the bass be smoother at the listening position due to this averaging, but it will also be smoother throughout the room.

Since our ears are more sensitive to peaks than to dips, the result of smoother bass will actually be more bass.  You see, when the bass is peaky, we'll set the level of the subwoofer low enough so that the main peak isn't too obtrusive.  But as a result, the rest of the bass region may well be down lower than it should be.  When the bass is smoothed through the use of multiple subs, the bass level isn't limited by one or two annoying peaks.

Equalization can be effective for a single listening position, but will usually make the response worse elsewhere in the room because a frequency response peak in one location will often become a dip in another, and vice versa.  Equalization is more likely to be benefical throughout the room when combined with a multisub approach.

I would suggest two or more small subwoofers having a steep-slope (24 dB per octave) low-pass filter so that at least one can be placed away from the main speakers without betraying its location.  Ironically the smaller the room, the greater the acoustic justification for using multiple scattered low frequency sources.

I designed a custom asymmetrical multisub system (to go with small satellite speakers) for a recording artist whose home studio is probably under 120 square feet.  He recently tried switching to two high quality "full-range" speakers, placed symmetrically, but suddenly the bass was lumpy and varied enormously with listening position.  So to get smooth bass once again we had to modify his fullrange speakers a bit and re-introduce the asymmetrical multiple subwoofer system.

Duke

[doug s.]

thanks, duke for going into detail further explaining my comment:

"...two subs will give better room loading vs using one sub...."

maybe now folks will believe what i have been saying all this time, especially for smaller rooms...   

doug s.

On the tangential topic of one sub vs two subs, let me offer a few comments.

The main problem of bass reproduction in small rooms is quality, not quantity.  The bass is typically lumpy due to large room-induced peaks and dips.  By using two or more low frequency sources spread around the room somewhat asymmetrically, the low frequency response can be smoothed out.  Each individual sub will excite the room’s modes in a different way.  While the response of each would still have peaks and dips, the total combined response will be much smoother than any one of the individual responses.  So the net result is a smoother and more natural-sounding low-frequency soundfield.   Not only will the bass be smoother at the listening position due to this averaging, but it will also be smoother throughout the room.

Since our ears are more sensitive to peaks than to dips, the result of smoother bass will actually be more bass.  You see, when the bass is peaky, we'll set the level of the subwoofer low enough so that the main peak isn't too obtrusive.  But as a result, the rest of the bass region may well be down lower than it should be.  When the bass is smoothed through the use of multiple subs, the bass level isn't limited by one or two annoying peaks.

Equalization can be effective for a single listening position, but will usually make the response worse elsewhere in the room because a frequency response peak in one location will often become a dip in another, and vice versa.  Equalization is more likely to be benefical throughout the room when combined with a multisub approach.

I would suggest two or more small subwoofers having a steep-slope (24 dB per octave) low-pass filter so that at least one can be placed away from the main speakers without betraying its location.  Ironically the smaller the room, the greater the acoustic justification for using multiple scattered low frequency sources.

I designed a custom asymmetrical multisub system (to go with small satellite speakers) for a recording artist whose home studio is probably under 120 square feet.  He recently tried switching to two high quality "full-range" speakers, placed symmetrically, but suddenly the bass was lumpy and varied enormously with listening position.  So to get smooth bass once again we had to modify his fullrange speakers a bit and re-introduce the asymmetrical multiple subwoofer system.

Duke