[ebag4]

Has anyone heard NOS Telefunken EL84s in a JoLida 102B?  If so, what were your impressions?  Also, which tube change wil make the biggest impact in the 102B, the 12AX7, the 12AT7s, or the EL84s?  This is a factory modded 102B and I am trying to determine the best spot to start rolling tubes.

Thanks,
Ed

[Les Lammers]

I don't have a Jolida but *I* would try a quad of NOS Tungrams or the Mullard reissues. Tungsrams sound a lot like Mullards, are very long lasting and are not very expensive. A good quad of Teles will cost a lot more and are getting hard to find. What EL84's, 12 AX, AT's are in there now? What do you not like about the sound? You can get really nice Mullard 12AT7's from Upscale Audio for a decent price. There are a lot of good 12AX7's. Don't be afraid to just try a few of the reasonably priced NOS or used tubes that test new. Sylvania, GE, Tung Sol etc.

[tanchiro58]

Tungsrams are good Eastern European tubes. Tungsram 12AU7s sounded best in my Clarinet before but for EL84s there are no NOS tubes can beat the Telefunkens in any applications.

[ebag4]

Thanks Les/Tan.
It is not that I am not enjoying the 102B with the stock tubes, but I heard something in a stock 102B with JJ/Tesla tubes (which I have now sold) that sounded just about perfect to my ears, it was in the tone.  I had the stock unit for a very short time before I found a good deal on a factory modded unit (has to be better, right? ).  I have yet to get that same tone out of the modded unit, although it still has fairly low hours on it, about 150 hrs, so there may still be some break in happening.  I have purchased a quad of pulls from a Hammond organ that are suppose to be made by Amperex, they have the "D" getters.  They sound good but not what I am looking for.  Unfortunately my tube knowledge and experience is somewhat limited, so while I am chasing tubes, there may be other ways to change the tone.  I have read where some JoLida owners run the bias higher or lower than 20ma stated in the manual.  I am running the stock tubes at 18ma now, but hear little difference.  I don't know what impact running a lower bias might have on tubes although I understand that running them excessively high will shorten tube life.  Any ideas or recommendations are appreciated.

Best,
Ed

[Les Lammers]

You had JJ's and liked them...get another quad. *I* don't agree with Tan. There is no *best* tube. Just the ones you prefer in you system.
What does the rest of your system consist of? BTW, I have Amperex D getters and like them in my amp. I have other tubes I like better though. The GE 6BQ5 gray oval plates are excellent tubes and I prefer them to the Amperex.

[jkelly]

My 102B was also modified and the balance control was taken out of line.

I have swapped all the tubes and each group will have an impact on sound.

Of course the EL84 is major.  I did not care for the JJ sound and staging.
I do like the ~inexpensive Tesla NOS 80's tubes that Jim McShane had. 
But I currently really like the NOS Mullard EL84 - CV2975's @$100per.
Everything is better.

BTW I am using NOS G & C 12AT7's - which also are excellent.

My amp take about 30 minutes to warm up. Wonder if that is true with
all of them?

Jeff

[ebag4]

Thanks for the input guys.  WRT what other equipment I am running, I have a Bolder analog modded SB3 with VH bypass caps power by a cheap linear PS, the 102B driving these speakers:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=48936.0

Les, I had both the stock and the modded 102Bs for a few days.  During that time I did try the JJs in the modded unit, however it only had a few more than 30 hrs on it at the time, so there was definitely beak in still occurring.  Regardless, I didn't get the same sound from the modded unit with the JJs compared to the broken in stock unit.

[tanchiro58]

My 102B was also modified and the balance control was taken out of line.

I have swapped all the tubes and each group will have an impact on sound.

Of course the EL84 is major.  I did not care for the JJ sound and staging.
I do like the ~inexpensive Tesla NOS 80's tubes that Jim McShane had. 
But I currently really like the NOS Mullard EL84 - CV2975's @$100per.
Everything is better.

BTW I am using NOS G & C 12AT7's - which also are excellent.

My amp take about 30 minutes to warm up. Wonder if that is true with
all of them?

Jeff

Jeff,

I did not have Jolida 102B amp but did have Manley Stingray which used two quads of EL84s or 6BQ5s and 12AT7 inputs or drivers. I kind of like Mullards and Brimars 6BQ5s (mostly for instrumentals and vocals) too but sometimes the Teles in different musics like classicals and rock pops.

Les,

You are absolutely right. Rolling tubes are all depending on your sonic tastes and the amp you use with.

Ed,

I like very much your speakers. Are they OBs?

Tan

[ebag4]

Thanks Tan, yes they are OBs.  They use GR Research's OB5/7 MTM section and a Hawthorne Augie covers from 200Hz down.  The Augie has it's own 100 Watt amp, the MTMs are driven by the 102B.

[pbrstreetgang]

I would really try some of the cheaper production tubes and then some good priced pulls that have been tested by a good seller before plunking down the big cash on NOS, Me having a big collection of 12s/62922/KT88/6550 I have felt some of the cheaper NOS and new tubes bo really well for the money. try some 12s from NOS Phillips and slightly older Eis. I different applications I feel they do real well compared to my NOS Teles, Mullards, and Amprex.

[ashok]

The Russian 6p14p-EV tubes fly under the radar sometimes. These are military grade tubes and heavier and sturdier than the JJs. Sound very good in my diytube st35. A quad of these tubes is around $30 including shipping from Ukraine.

Here is a link http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-6P14P-EV-7189-6BQ5-EL84M-Tubes-Lot-of-4_W0QQitemZ200202580662QQihZ010QQcategoryZ58174QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (no affiliation with seller, etc.)

These tubes were a drop-in replacement, except I re-checked the bias, of course. They should work without any problems in a 102B.

Also, I replaced the 12AX7 in my st35 with a NOS 5751 (GE). Brings a very nice tone to the amp.

Ashok

[Les Lammers]

Thanks for the input guys.  WRT what other equipment I am running, I have a Bolder analog modded SB3 with VH bypass caps power by a cheap linear PS, the 102B driving these speakers:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=48936.0

Les, I had both the stock and the modded 102Bs for a few days.  During that time I did try the JJs in the modded unit, however it only had a few more than 30 hrs on it at the time, so there was definitely beak in still occurring.  Regardless, I didn't get the same sound from the modded unit with the JJs compared to the broken in stock unit.

You might want to post on Audio Asylum too. The new production Mullard 12AX7 is a good tube and you can't beat the Mullard 12AT7's that Upscale Audio has.
Good price too and they are really tested. *I* don't think you can go wrong with Mullard EL84's. Many Mullard's were sold and re-labeled...but they are Mullard Blackburn tubes. They usually sell for less than tubes labeled Mullard but they are identical. I have a quad that are labeled Sylvania and they are excellent
If you want Telefunkens be sure they have the diamond on the bottom or they are not Telefunken manufactured tubes. Telefunken put their label on tubes from other manufacturers. Google Mullard EL84 6BQ5 and you will find a lot of info and pictures of tubes. Here is a link to Philips tube codes:

http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/oheinone/valves/pvm-coding.html

Link to pics of Mullards: http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo%20EL84/EL84.htm

Google Tungsram EL84 6BQ5 too. They sound very close to Mullards. They take a good while to burn in but may be outstanding in an amp with adjustable bias.
I have read good things about the New Sensor Mullard re-issues too but have not tried them yet.

I bought a quad of these from this seller and they are excellent tubes: http://cgi.ebay.com/1-Or-More-Tube-EL84-Philips-6BQ5-Mullard-Blackburn_W0QQitemZ250185623173QQihZ015QQcategoryZ50598QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem

Mullard made but labeled Philips. *I* would not pay $400 for a quad of Mullards.

[ltr317]

To answer your question, one of my amps is a Jolida 302A, which uses EL34 output tubes.  From my experience in tube rolling, the Jolida preamp section 12AX7s changes the tone more than the driver 12AT7s or the output tubes.  I have several other amps which uses EL84s, and again the 12AX7 I choose in the separate preamp changes the tone more than any of the output tubes in the amps.  Based on my experience, my procedure now is to tube roll the 12AX7 first or any one of its variants (e.g. 7025, 5751, 6681, 12AD7, 12AU7 if your circuit allows it).  Once I settled on the preamp tube, then if I want to refine the sound, I'll try a different driver tube for the current 12AT7, and last the output tubes.   You may be satisfy after changing the preamp tube(s), thereby saving time and money on the other tubes.  Of course your experience may vary, but logically this method changes one element at a time starting from when the signal reaches the preamp to the output of the power amp.  If you have a source like a tube CD player, then change that tube first.  Hope this answers your question.     

[Jon L]

The Russian 6p14p-EV tubes fly under the radar sometimes.

I have all the Mullards, Tele's, Teslas, Amperexes, JJ's, etc, etc littering my room.  I still prefer the Russian 6pi14piEB.  With the open baffle speakers in this thread, I am guessing the OP wants a bit more density/richness/tone/body thing without sacrificing detail, openness.  If so, the 6pi14piEB is your Toob 

[ebag4]

Some great info in this thread guys, I appreciate your input.

Best,
Ed

[nodiak]

Hi Ed, I agree with ltr317 to try changing preamp tubes first. I found the new issue TungSol 12ax7 to be a great "tone" tube - big and musical with good detail. Sovtek 12ax7lps were good too, but lighter and airier. This was in a Scott 222c, where I found 80's Russian 7189's to work well (good clarity and power, look like the 6H14's at Upscale), but JJ el84's too soft (but great in my current amp).
Don

[Jon L]

The new production Mullard 12AX7 is a good tube and you can't beat the Mullard 12AT7's that Upscale Audio has.

What the heck?  Is it just me or is the "Mullard reissue 12AX7" looks like Sovtek 12AX7LPS with higher price?  Anyone compared both to confirm sound differences? The LPS is an excellent tube BTW.



Or are you talking about Groove Tube 12AX7M.  As for Upscale Audio carrying Mullard reissue 12AT7, I can't seem to find it on the site?

[Les Lammers]

The Russian 6p14p-EV tubes fly under the radar sometimes.

I have all the Mullards, Tele's, Teslas, Amperexes, JJ's, etc, etc littering my room.  I still prefer the Russian 6pi14piEB.  With the open baffle speakers in this thread, I am guessing the OP wants a bit more density/richness/tone/body thing without sacrificing detail, openness.  If so, the 6pi14piEB is your Toob 

Jon,

What amp are you using them in? They might be a good choice for the Jolida because they are tough and biasing can be flexible.

Les

[Les Lammers]

The new production Mullard 12AX7 is a good tube and you can't beat the Mullard 12AT7's that Upscale Audio has.

What the heck?  Is it just me or is the "Mullard reissue 12AX7" looks like Sovtek 12AX7LPS with higher price?  Anyone compared both to confirm sound differences? The LPS is an excellent tube BTW.



Or are you talking about Groove Tube 12AX7M.  As for Upscale Audio carrying Mullard reissue 12AT7, I can't seem to find it on the site?

There is no Mullard 12AT7 reissue. Upscale has the real Mullard's at a good price. Also, you cannot go by the looks of a tube. Kevin explaind the GT story on the website is is not a LPS and thre New Sensor reiisue is not a GT. The Mullard reissue 12AX7 is pretty good but I dunno how it would sound in the Jolida.

[Jon L]

All these reissues are starting to get confusing 

If the "Mullard" 12AX7 only looks like LPS but sound different, I'm inclined to try it b/c I like the LPS so much.  I'm using these and 6pi14pi EB in my modded Almarro A205a MkII BTW.  This also brings up "Mullard" reissue New Sensor EL84 b/c it also looks like Sovtek EL84, but if they only look alike but sound "better," I might need to try some of these also..