[ryder]

It has been a long time since I last saw a thread regarding PMC speakers here.

I would appreciate if any owners of the PMC TLE1 would care to share on its performance in comparison with other subwoofers in the similiar price range. Also, I would be glad to know whether the sub works better at the corner of the room or in between speakers. I have placed order on one and currently awaiting delivery. The TLE1 will replace my Dali SWA12 in 2-channel while the latter will be relegated to HT duties. A little advice from TLE1 owners would be useful.

Thanks in advance.

[James Tanner]

It has been a long time since I last saw a thread regarding PMC speakers here.

I would appreciate if any owners of the PMC TLE1 would care to share on its performance in comparison with other subwoofers in the similiar price range. Also, I would be glad to know whether the sub works better at the corner of the room or in between speakers. I have placed order on one and currently awaiting delivery. The TLE1 will replace my Dali SWA12 in 2-channel while the latter will be relegated to HT duties. A little advice from TLE1 owners would be useful.

Thanks in advance.

Hi Ryder,

What are your main speakers and how big is your room?

james

[ryder]

Hi James,

My speakers are PMC LB1 Signature and my room dimensions are 11'x17'x8'.

[John Thomas]

It has been a long time since I last saw a thread regarding PMC speakers here.

I would appreciate if any owners of the PMC TLE1 would care to share on its performance in comparison with other subwoofers in the similiar price range. Also, I would be glad to know whether the sub works better at the corner of the room or in between speakers. I have placed order on one and currently awaiting delivery. The TLE1 will replace my Dali SWA12 in 2-channel while the latter will be relegated to HT duties. A little advice from TLE1 owners would be useful.

Thanks in advance.

I never listened to the TLE1 or saw any reviews on it so I settled on JLAudio 113. I love PMC speakers a lot that's why I own IB2's and IB2C and wafer 2 for the rears. I'm sure you will be very happy with the subwoofer. Good luck.

[ryder]

Thanks for the response. It's true that it is very rare to see a PMC review anywhere. I've searched for consumer reviews on the TLE1 in audioreview and there is not a single one there(although there was a heading for PMC TLE1), and no professional review elsewhere. To make things worse, there is not a single mention on this PMC TLE1 in Audiogon. Anyway I also think this subwoofer would be an improvement to my Dali sub and I know I cannot go wrong since my main speakers is also PMC. For your case, I am guessing the TLE1 may not help too much with their small twin 6 1/2 inch woofers since the IB2's already go very low, and hence the JLAudio 113 may be a better fit.

[James Tanner]

Hi James,

My speakers are PMC LB1 Signature and my room dimensions are 11'x17'x8'.

Hi ryder,

OK - I assume you are aware that the TLE-1 does not have an internal crossover so there is no 'high-pass' crossover available. That means that your LB1's will still run 'full range' and the TLE-Sub will just augment them at low frequencies. If you wanted to roll-off the LB1's below a certain frequency you would have to use an outboard crossover like our 10B.

The TLE goes down to about 30Hz. Corner placement will always increase  output - meaning it will go 'louder' but not 'lower'. You have to be careful with corner placement because although you get an increase in volume level you 'excite' every room resonance there is - so 'one note bass' can be a problem.  Putting the sub nearer to the main speakers will make 'integration' easier but you then lose  a lot of level due to the lack of wall or boundary reinforcement.

Subwoofer placement really takes a lot of experimenting to get it right. Your goal is to get the sub to integrate and at the same time provide better overall frequency response in your listening room. The TLE has both a 'Phase' and 'Level' adjustment so you can experiment with that as well once you get the rough placement position sorted out. Listen for lower bass but also 'transient'  bass where the sub shares the frequencies with the Mains (double bass recording is a good test).  a lot of subs let the system go lower but the phase and integration at the crossover point starts to sound slow and non-defined.

Most times people allow the Sub to 'overlap' the Mains over too large a frequency response (say up to 100Hz). That is why some suggest using a high-pass cutoff on the Mains and a low-pass cutoff on the sub is a better approach to make sure that overlap is as minimal as possible.

Ryder - every room is different and it is a labor of love to get the sub and the mains to integrate but if done correctly the rewards are great.

james

[ryder]

Hi James,

Thanks a lot for the comprehensive and detailed write-up. Your advice is much appreciated. Yes, I am aware that the TLE-1 does not have an internal crossover like my Dali SWA-12. I have played around with the LB1’s, switching back and forth between running them full range and high-passing them with the Dali sub thus rolling-off the bass at certain frequency. After a painstaking process, I decidedly settled for the former since I figured out it is not a good idea to use the inferior crossover of my Dali subwoofer.

From the TLE-1 specifications, the frequency range shows that the sub is able to go down to 22Hz, so I am not too sure about your point of it going down to about 30Hz. Pardon my ignorance. That wouldn’t be too good as the specification of my Dali shows a frequency response of 27-150Hz. Anyway, from what I heard, the TLE-1 is a much better sub than the Dali, so I’m not too worried.

I guess I have a lot of work to do when I get the sub as I am fully aware it is not a one-day affair whereby you can just plonk the sub somewhere and fire up the system. It took me months to integrate my Dali sub to the LB1’s, but I’m little more ‘experienced’ now so I hope I could accomplish the integration of the TLE-1 in less than 1 month.

Cheers.

[James Tanner]

Hi James,

Thanks a lot for the comprehensive and detailed write-up. Your advice is much appreciated. Yes, I am aware that the TLE-1 does not have an internal crossover like my Dali SWA-12. I have played around with the LB1’s, switching back and forth between running them full range and high-passing them with the Dali sub thus rolling-off the bass at certain frequency. After a painstaking process, I decidedly settled for the former since I figured out it is not a good idea to use the inferior crossover of my Dali subwoofer.

From the TLE-1 specifications, the frequency range shows that the sub is able to go down to 22Hz, so I am not too sure about your point of it going down to about 30Hz. Pardon my ignorance. That wouldn’t be too good as the specification of my Dali shows a frequency response of 27-150Hz. Anyway, from what I heard, the TLE-1 is a much better sub than the Dali, so I’m not too worried.

I guess I have a lot of work to do when I get the sub as I am fully aware it is not a one-day affair whereby you can just plonk the sub somewhere and fire up the system. It took me months to integrate my Dali sub to the LB1’s, but I’m little more ‘experienced’ now so I hope I could accomplish the integration of the TLE-1 in less than 1 month.

Cheers.

Hi Ryder,

Yes when you see frequency responses quoted on speakers usually the lowest frequency is the -6dB point or there is a reliance on corner placement to boost the output at the lowest frequency.  In my room when I measure the output on the two TLE's I have - 30Hz is measurable - 20 Hz is non-existence but I do have them about 2 feet into the room.

james

[ryder]

Hi Ryder,

Yes when you see frequency responses quoted on speakers usually the lowest frequency is the -6dB point or there is a reliance on corner placement to boost the output at the lowest frequency.  In my room when I measure the output on the two TLE's I have - 30Hz is measurable - 20 Hz is non-existence but I do have them about 2 feet into the room.

james

Thanks for the clarification. I guess 30Hz would suffice for most musical material. I don't listen to organ at all, and since the lowest note on the piano is at 28Hz(most scores won't touch that anyway), I guess the sub has pretty much covered the entire frequency range. So I guess the LB1's lowest frequency would be 35Hz-6db and their output would be around 45Hz or so.

Cheers.

[b5pt9]

James' statement "a lot of subs let the system go lower but the phase and integration at the crossover point starts to sound slow and non-defined" is exactly what I am finding.

I don't want to give up the deep bass extension of my FB1's so I've been running them full-range and trying to augment the very bottom end with the TLE1.  It's easy to get more bass but very difficult to keep the sound clean and sharp.  I've had better results by using the SP1.7 crossover to high-pass the FB1's and low-pass the TLE1 around 60Hz.

[ryder]

Subwoofer placement really takes a lot of experimenting to get it right. Your goal is to get the sub to integrate and at the same time provide better overall frequency response in your listening room. The TLE has both a 'Phase' and 'Level' adjustment so you can experiment with that as well once you get the rough placement position sorted out. Listen for lower bass but also 'transient'  bass where the sub shares the frequencies with the Mains (double bass recording is a good test).  a lot of subs let the system go lower but the phase and integration at the crossover point starts to sound slow and non-defined.

james

I've just played around with the sub for an hour yesterday after hooking it up. Will only have more time to experiment this coming weekend.

I have my sub in between the speakers. I would appreciate if anyone could let me know what is the approximate level you have on the TLE1. Regarding the phase adjustment, I cannot find major differences going from 0-360, but I hope to hear a difference when I find time during this weekend. Also, may I know what is the function of the roll-off switch? What frequencies are rolled-off when the switch is turned on? I noticed there is adjustment for the roll-off frequency as well.

I find the TLE1 a major improvement over my Dali sub even after a brief listening period. It is more powerful, goes lower and has better bass quality.

Any advice would be most appreciated.

[b5pt9]

I just set the phasing to zero and placed it right beside the right front speaker with the front face of the sub in exactly the same plane as the front of the speaker.  From what I've read this is a good starting point and avoids having to adjust the phasing.

The sub level ends up quite high on the adjustment pot, about 80-90%.  That's with an SP1.7, 4BSST and FB1+'s.

From what I understand the "rolloff" button enables or disables the sub's internal x-over.  Maybe my TLE1 is malfunctioning but with the rolloff disabled I get a pretty noticeable hum, so I always leave it enabled.  If I want to use the SP1.7 to set the sub x-over level I just turn the sub x-over to max.

Hope this helps.

[ryder]

I just set the phasing to zero and placed it right beside the right front speaker with the front face of the sub in exactly the same plane as the front of the speaker.  From what I've read this is a good starting point and avoids having to adjust the phasing.

The sub level ends up quite high on the adjustment pot, about 80-90%.  That's with an SP1.7, 4BSST and FB1+'s.

From what I understand the "rolloff" button enables or disables the sub's internal x-over.  Maybe my TLE1 is malfunctioning but with the rolloff disabled I get a pretty noticeable hum, so I always leave it enabled.  If I want to use the SP1.7 to set the sub x-over level I just turn the sub x-over to max.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the response. My sub position is roughly similiar to yours. However, I have set my sub level at 12 o'clock and find anything above 1 o'clock to be too strong although the sub is not placed at the corner of the room. I guess your SP1.7 processor has got something to do with the high level on your TLE1, or maybe your room is large. On the "rolloff" button, the bass is rolled off when it is enabled. Not too sure what exactly is the purpose of this feature though.

I'm beginning to like this sub a lot and first impression is certainly very good. Now I realise the importance of a good quality subwoofer.

[ryder]

Hi b5pt9,

I just figured out that the "crossover" button needs to be enabled for optimum results. With the crossover feature disabled and the subwoofer running full-range, the overlap is too much and the bass and midrange are pretty messed up. I have settled on a crossover frequency of 82Hz and volume level at 1 o'clock. I couldn't be happier with the current seamless integration I'm getting with the TLE1. The Dali SWA-12 sub I was using for the past 3 years is inferior in comparison with the PMC TLE1.

I heartily recommend this subwoofer for those who own some PMC small monitors up to the FB1 if quality bass is what one seeks.