Auto Bias for U70 from Circio, any feedback?

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iclark

Auto Bias for U70 from Circio, any feedback?
« on: 29 Feb 2008, 02:46 am »
I noticed an Auto Bias curcuit on this web site, http://www.curcioaudio.com/BCS_3.htm. Does anybody have any experience with this?
What do you think Frank?

Ian

iclark

Re: Auto Bias for U70 from Circio, any feedback?
« Reply #1 on: 4 Mar 2008, 11:32 pm »
No answer?
I have grand children, so for safty sake I keep the cage on my U70. (those glowing tubes seem like a magnet to little ones)
Being somewhat anal, I find I am always tweaking the bias looking for perfection. It is very inconvenient to remove the cage everytime I want to adjust the bias. I thought the auto bias circuit from Circio might be the solution. Does anybody have an opinion on this?

Ian

gjs_cds

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Re: Auto Bias for U70 from Circio, any feedback?
« Reply #2 on: 5 Mar 2008, 02:49 am »
I have the auto-biasing circuit that you speak of... and it seems to work quite well.  After the amp (heavily Curcio modded ST-70) is properly warmed up (sometimes as much as 20 or 30 minutes), I find that the bias is usually pretty spot on.  (+/- .02 V)

However, my love affair with this particular amp has dwindled a bit.  There's a bit too much hum for my liking, and the amp almost seems microphonic (in bass response particularly)--and thus fundamentally annoying.  Warm-up seems to help, but does not 100% alleviate the problem.

Whether or not this circuit will run OK in a U70--I have no clue.  I have a heavily Curcio modded ST-70, and I have no idea if you can exchange design/boards of one design with another.  What I guess I'm saying is that I trust Frank, and that he likely didn't put a similar circuit in the design for a reason.  And at some point, I'd like to dump this Curcio and pick up a u70.
« Last Edit: 5 Mar 2008, 04:01 am by gjs_cds »

Brett Buck

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Re: Auto Bias for U70 from Circio, any feedback?
« Reply #3 on: 5 Mar 2008, 03:11 am »
However, my love affair with this particular amp has dwindled a bit.  There's a bit too much hum for my liking, and the amp almost seems microphonic (in bass response particularly)--and thus fundamentally annoying.  Warm-up seems to help, but does not 100% alleviate the problem.

    I will probably post my U70 results sometime, but after having listened to a fair number of the aftermarket ST-70 mods (although not the Curcio) the U70 us FAR AND AWAY the best. It's not even close, and the poor damping at low frequencies is a pretty common theme -with a likely explanation in AB from 1982.

     I would also add that although they are pleasant, to my ear none are remotely in the ballpark with an Omegastar 260EX, including the U70.

     Brett
« Last Edit: 5 Mar 2008, 04:27 am by Brett Buck »

gjs_cds

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Re: Auto Bias for U70 from Circio, any feedback?
« Reply #4 on: 5 Mar 2008, 11:31 pm »
I would also add that although they are pleasant, to my ear none are remotely in the ballpark with an Omegastar 260EX, including the U70.

See--this is what I have always wondered.  In the past, I was a SS guy--because it's a (technically) better technology.  Then, as I aged--I just continued to be tube-curious.  I read up on them, read how (at least in theory) they may have certain advantages over SS... and this only fed my tube-curiosity.  In reality, I would have always preferred a U70--but the notion of getting into a bidding war over an antique ST70, only to turn it around and send it to Frank: (1) didn't appeal to me, and was (2) more than I felt like spending second to curiosity. 

So when I got a chance to pick up a heavily modded Curcio... I gave it a look.  And since the amp itself is quite gorgeous--I made the plunge.  (First question from my wife--"Where's the top?"  Chics just don't get it.)

And after listening to the amp for many months on some reasonably high resolution speakers (4-way, dipolars)--I remain underwhelmed.  Which makes me wonder if SS was always the more reasonable and ultimately preferable choice.  Less fiddling, better overall sound (i.e., less trade-offs).  I may relegate the Curcio to my university office--at least it'll bring up interesting conversations with the 18 to 23 demographic.

Brett Buck

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Re: Auto Bias for U70 from Circio, any feedback?
« Reply #5 on: 6 Mar 2008, 02:23 am »
And after listening to the amp for many months on some reasonably high resolution speakers (4-way, dipolars)--I remain underwhelmed.  Which makes me wonder if SS was always the more reasonable and ultimately preferable choice.  Less fiddling, better overall sound (i.e., less trade-offs).  I may relegate the Curcio to my university office--at least it'll bring up interesting conversations with the 18 to 23 demographic.

       Bear in mind also that a Omegastar 260 has 4x the power. While it's true that in some regards tube amps generally seem more powerful than the really are, that's a lot different and the dynamics, range,  and linearity seem significantly better than the U70. Getting two of them and running them bridged would likely be a very big improvement. And you'll save on the gas bill in the winter.

   I would also note that although I haven't seen/heard the Curcio the U70 is A LOT better than a stock unit and noticabley better than any of the other mods I have heard. In particular the high end has tremendously better definition. The bass of the U70 is a significant improvement as well, but not as well damped as the mosfet amp. It was pretty enjoyable to put together and absurdly easy once I got the old parts cleaned up (and replaced the power transformer due to insulation problems with the original). If I ever do it again, I will almost certainly build it from new parts, which means a pretty healthy chunk of change by my standards (although nothing compared to the money a lot of guys waste in magic interconnects and speaker wires). I think it's clear that the performance, reliability, and value of the mosfet amps are a clear win i every category. But it wasn't for me and it's really just a disguised "repair" job. I REALLY fixed it!

  Since we are on the topic, I also got the Super PAS preamp (with the same "repair" excuse for my father) and that is a whole different ball of wax. That's pretty fantastic and easily a match for just about anything going. As far as I can tell you give up *nothing* in terms of performance to *any* preamp I have tried. Assuming good tubes, which so far seems to be no problem. I wouldn't say it's better than the Omegastar, just slightly different, and (as mentioned in a 1986 Audio Basics) it does indeed work something like a CD "fixer" - just barely knocking the edges off of some harsh recordings. I probably am going to get a Super PAS for myself.

    Brett

p.s. I haven't attempted any tube tests for the U70, so I may not be getting optimal peformance. I am using EH 6CA7, which are a lot better than the 40-ish year old 20,000 hour unknown brand EL34s, but I have no idea what I might be missing with other available tubes. I would presume that it could make a big difference- but it's awfully good as-is.
« Last Edit: 6 Mar 2008, 05:06 am by Brett Buck »

Opus Flatus

Re: Auto Bias for U70 from Circio, any feedback?
« Reply #6 on: 7 Mar 2008, 09:02 pm »
I find, like a lot of people, that it is hard to compare tube to solid-state circuits. There are many different topologies that factor into the sound of equipment.  I have discovered and love well designed tube circuits these last few years. Like a lot of Gen Xers I grew up with solid state audio.  IMO you can’t beat hollow state for soundstaging and smoothness and the glowing tubes look purty!.  Although I do enjoy Class A solid state as well which seems to have a lot of the tube magic. I even have flee powered SETS and I like them too. My journey has led me to AVA gear and his design philosophy. It is no BS, great sounding, reasonably priced, if you ‘re not a tight ass, and made in America too! (As a Navy Lifer, I prefer to spend my dollars on US goods). My main rig is all AVA and I am quite happy with it.

If you need bass or more power, BIAMP or add a good sub (same difference).  I have not felt the need to add a sub (I have a HSU VTF-2) to my U70 rig – it has plenty of power and bass as is for my transmission line full-rangers.

I am currently using a matched quad set of Valve Art/Shauguang tubes (can’t afford US made in this dept).  These are good, reasonably priced tubes. They replaced a set of Winged C’s that only lasted a few hundred hours. The could not tell of any significant difference between the brands in this circuit. I would like to try some 6550’s or JJ’s KT-77’s next.

Wayner

Re: Auto Bias for U70 from Circio, any feedback?
« Reply #7 on: 7 Mar 2008, 09:41 pm »
I'm sure you all know that another way to increase the power of the U70 is by pairing it with higher efficient speakers. A U70 tied to a rather efficient pair of older Dynaco A25XL's @ 91db/watt/meter can produce some rather room filling dynamics that I'm sure will please many a tube affectionado (that's what I run on ocassion). Pair the amp up with an ultra fast ss pre-amp, like the OmegaStar for a really great combination.

Wayner