[markC]

Although I am using these tubes in the output circuit, I think that the same "flavour" will carry true.
I listened to the Aperex 6DJ8's, (1968 N.O.S), for about 4 hours and they are very similar to the 1963 or so Philips 6922 SQ's that I had in the circuit previously.  The SQ's get the nod for clarity in the highs and definition in the vocals, but @ half the cost, I could be content with the Aperex.

[jules]

If you're talking about the Amperex orange, Holland [not US] they have a very good reputation ... good choice!! This is one of those tubes that sort of get under the radar as far as cost goes. For some reason, if it doesn't have gold pins, nobody's interested 

Did the SQs die of old age or are you creating a small collection?

jules

[markC]

Yep, orange label Heerlen and nope, just expreimenting with different tubes and starting a collection. Given the cost of most of these babies, it will sadly be a rather small collection.
I've heard JJ Tesla's described as a warm sounding tube. Although I like midrange warmth, I'm betting the top end extension won't cut it. Any insight on these?

[Steve]

Hi Mark,

     If you are referring to the JJ E88ccs, they have a nice top end and are pretty neutral, not imparting their own character. The Jan Philips are much fuller.

Cheers.
Steve

[markC]

Yes, they are the ones. Thanks for the input; given the price, (quite reasonable), I just may give them a go.

[Freo-1]

If you want to get a quality tube for a reasonable price, check out the 7DJ8/PCC88. These are 7 volt versions of the 6DJ8, which means they will last longer, and in most applications will not have any noise to speak of. If you call around, you can find NOS Dutch model (VALVO) for 25 to 30 dollars each.

I found a set of 5 Rogers 6DJ8 (Canada) that say Made in Holland, but they do not look like Amperex plates (Phillips?) and they are tremendous. I like them as much as the Amperex 6DJ8 D getter (which is as good as it gets for 6DJ8).

The prices for the Gold Pin types are out of sight now. I was fortunate enough to get a set of Amperex 7308 JAN types, and they are very,very good.  The Amperex 6922 types are also very good, but a touch brighter than the 7308. My experience is the older JAN 6922's are the best ones to get.

Siemens made 6922's for RCA, which you can find at a lower cost than the tubes labeled Siemens, and they are just as good. I found a set that were labeled CBS, and they are very detailed.

[markC]

Well, that confirms what I'm hearing. I'd really like something in between the Philips 6922SQ and the Amperex 6DJ8 that I have.
I'll be on the lookout for some 7DJ8's and scoop them up if the price is good.

[Midnite Mick]

Thank you for all the responses.  I have been without a computer for over a week and have not been able to check in.  I guess I should give you more information of what I am looking for.

My system is listed in my signature and am finding it to be tipped up a little for my tastes.  I am requiring a little warmth which to me will make my system sound more accurate.  My amps are running a quad of EH 6CA7's and a Tung Sol 5687 driver each.  They also use 2 6922's as inputs.  I have the Tung Sol 5687's in my preamp.

I currently have EH 6922 as inputs and have tried Tungsram PCC88's.  These tubes were incredibly quiet but just sounded on the dry and mechanical side to me.

For power tubes I have tried some JJ E34L's but found them too bright as well compared to the EH's.  My speakers sound quite open but can lean a little on the bright side as I think Ushers can.  Wondering if trying different input tubes in the amps can help to bring things down a little without a sense of collapsing the soundstage.  I am getting a Droplet cd player within the next few days as well, which will probably change things.

Any suggestions?

I am looking forward to your impressions jackthecat.

Thanks all,
Mike

[Levi]

I have several 6DJ8 I can trade for 6922 tubes.  I like the sound of the Amperex 6922 PQ white label USA better than the 6DJ8. 

[jules]

Paradoxically, I've found that adding more detail can add more warmth. A very good tube can sound clinical and dry if the rest of the system doesn't back it up with good information but it can be the icing on the cake in a system that does. A coarse, overly active tube can sound ok in  a system that lacks the ability to reproduce detail but it's definitely a compromise.

jules

[tanchiro58]

I like the sound of the Amperex 6922 PQ white label USA better than the 6DJ8.

Levi,

I agreed but do you like the bothering of microphonics of these tubes when listening to your musics or you are already get used to them?

Tan

[jules]

Tan,

They aren't always microphonic ... to some extent it depends on the gain in the amp/pre-amp. Microphonics can be a problem with many of these smaller tubes in the wrong environment.

Aside from microphonics, the Amperex I've tried all have a definite "character" and that could be described as adding color. With the best it's very subtle. With the lesser one's it's pretty aggressive.

jules

[Levi]

Err..  all tubes are microphonic to a degree. 

I like the sound of the Amperex 6922 PQ white label USA better than the 6DJ8.

Levi,

I agreed but do you like the bothering of microphonics of these tubes when listening to your musics or you are already get used to them?

Tan

[tanchiro58]

They aren't always microphonic ... to some extent it depends on the gain in the amp/pre-amp. Microphonics can be a problem with many of these smaller tubes in the wrong environment.

Jules,

If you said so do you have any ways like switching resistors or caps to reduce the gain to match with the Amperex PQ white label 6922 tubes which I just got them. These tubes had excellent sound and much less microphonics in my CJ17LS whereas they are annoying with microphonics in my Promitheus Apollo preamp even though I have switched around between my Sun Audio SET 2A3 amp and Altmann BYOB amp. I am using now Siemens PCC189 in my Apollo preamp which is dead quiet and is very very nice sounding.

Tan

[Levi]

+  Well said.

Tan,

They aren't always microphonic ... to some extent it depends on the gain in the amp/pre-amp. Microphonics can be a problem with many of these smaller tubes in the wrong environment.

Aside from microphonics, the Amperex I've tried all have a definite "character" and that could be described as adding color. With the best it's very subtle. With the lesser one's it's pretty aggressive.

jules

[Levi]

It looks like you found bad tubes even though they tested ok.

I would advice to try more.  You may get lucky.  I use 6 of them in my preamp.   Go figure.

They aren't always microphonic ... to some extent it depends on the gain in the amp/pre-amp. Microphonics can be a problem with many of these smaller tubes in the wrong environment.

Jules,

If you said so do you have any ways like switching resistors or caps to reduce the gain to match with the Amperex PQ white label 6922 tubes which I just got them. These tubes had excellent sound and much less microphonics in my CJ17LS whereas they are annoying with microphonics in my Promitheus Apollo preamp even though I have switched around between my Sun Audio SET 2A3 amp and Altmann BYOB amp. I am using now Siemens PCC189 in my Apollo preamp which is dead quiet and is very very nice sounding.

Tan

[jules]

Tan,

I don't know your system so I'm really only speculating here but it could be that you're better off with a precise tube in your pre, like the Siemens you've tried or maybe a Telefunken PCC88 [or E88CC if you've just inherited a fortune] because if you amplify a strongly colored [or even slightly colored] sound and then feed it into another tube that does it's own version of the same thing, you'll finish up with too much of everything.

I could be wrong in my analysis though 

jules

[tanchiro58]

Jules,

Actually my Promitheus Apollo preamp was using Russian 6N1P version (I definitely do not like the sound of 6N1Ps which is dull and not palpable and not musical at all) and finally with the help of Nicholas Chua I modified to use with 6922 tubes. I had tried every single top notch 6922s and still get microphonics more or less audible from 2-3 feet away the speakers which are high sensitivity. My friend suggested me to try the PCC189s. I bought bunch of different PCC189s like Telefunkens, Valvos and Siemens (they are cheap and superior to 6922 sonically). The Teles and Valvos are also microphonics except Siemens work fine and the sound even better than top notch Teles and Siemens CCa 6922s in my previous CJ17LS and CJ16LS.

Tan

[jules]

hmmm ... Extrapolating from stuff I've tried, including ECC189 tubes I'd  presume the PCC189/7es8 would be a variable Mu tube with a 7Volt heater filament? They aren't usually regarded as a great audio tube because they add a fair dash of harmonics though I think they can sound ok in some situations.

It sounds as though the Promitheus is a bit heavy on it's tubes which is consistent with the microphonics problem and also a reasonable justification for using the PCCs [or the original 6NIP tubes which are apparently strong if nothing else] which should last better. Also, by slightly reducing the output they'd ease the microphonics problem slightly. I'm not knowledgeable enough to be able to suggest any ways you could modify the pre-amp and on the face of it, I'd think it might not be possible.

jules

 
 

[markC]

As always, it's horses for courses. I suppose if you have high sensitivity speakers, they'll be more prone to portray any microphonics from the tubes. But, where do the microphonics come from - the tubes do not create them. Have you tried dampers and the like?