[Daygloworange]

By far the absolute best digital I've heard is Wayne at Bolder's latest uber mods on the SB3 and his MkIV power supply. Couple that to his modified Burson Buffer and I'm convinced it simply doesn't get any better at any price. Keep in mind, what sounds good in my reference system, my not work in yours.

Ditto.

I'm a studio guy who wants absolute clarity and resolution. I will be going full bore with the Bolder SB 3 mods.

As a matter of fact, I've sent some of my studio recording gear to Bolder for mods, and probably some of my vintage guitar amps for mods and rebuilds.

As far as synergy, Scott and I have vastly different systems, and I have the same opinion as he about the sound quality of the Bolder modded SB3 combo.

I will never spin a CD again.

Except to rip it, of course. 

I suspect the same thing as opaqueice on the topic of bit dropping with the digital volume control. I've never noticed a sonic degradation per se, not anymore sonic change than when you lower the SPL in an analog fashion. I don't know how many people have a low enough ambient noise floor in their listening room to be able to hear any bit dropping (due to digital volume control) at lower SPL's anyhow.

Cheers

[darrenyeats]

hard drive space is cheap. You can have a TB of external storage for under $300 (if you watch where you shop). A TB of storage in raw WAV will easily get you somewhere around 600-800 CD's. After that, just add more storage.

I agree.

One extra thing to consider is FLAC. FLAC is lossless and an open standard with support on Mac, PC, Linux and many portable and network players. Tagging files is a bit tricky with WAV whereas FLAC has full tagging facilities.

You can always convert from a lossless format into WAV (or into another lossless format) later without loss, if you wish. That's one of the beauties of lossless.
Darren

[Geardaddy]

Has anyone look at used this technology?:

Exact Audio Copy:  EAC is a free ripper like iTunes, except that it does multiple reads and corrects any errors and then outputs the signal through your computer's buffered memory.

And how about the Nova Physics Memory player which is a fancier permutation of Exact Audio Copies perported technology?

[mcgsxr]

I exclusively use EAC to rip to FLAC, there is a sticky on this in the Square Circle here on AC.

My "server" is a 5 year old Dell PC... with 2 onboard 80g drives (one for OS, one for tunes) and I use a 250g usb drive to back it all up.

As for dropping bits, the Slimserver s/w has a setting for lowering the preamp sensitivity, so you can keep the volume above 60 (of 100 steps) the place where supposedly you will experience bit loss if below.

I have never heard it though.

[darrenyeats]

Has anyone look at used this technology?:

Exact Audio Copy:  EAC is a free ripper like iTunes, except that it does multiple reads and corrects any errors and then outputs the signal through your computer's buffered memory.

And how about the Nova Physics Memory player which is a fancier permutation of Exact Audio Copies perported technology?

Well, as I said I've checked several times whether my ripper (cdparanoia) reads the disc the same every time and it does (to the last bit). Maybe other people have had another experience but this is mine which I offer to you. So EAC and the Memory Player can be that good at reading discs too. But there's no room for them to be better (IME).

Of course there may be other things about the Memory Player that make it sound superior...but I believe reading the data off the disc better than a ripper isn't one of them.
Darren

[darrenyeats]

As for dropping bits, the Slimserver s/w has a setting for lowering the preamp sensitivity, so you can keep the volume above 60 (of 100 steps) the place where supposedly you will experience bit loss if below.

Right. Please note however this setting still works with digital attenuation. If you want to match sensitivities using analogue you need to buy some in-line attenuators or use a power amp with variable input sensitivity (assuming the idea is to avoid a preamp).
Regards, Darren

[Double Ugly]

Has anyone look at used this technology?:

Exact Audio Copy:  EAC is a free ripper like iTunes, except that it does multiple reads and corrects any errors and then outputs the signal through your computer's buffered memory.

And how about the Nova Physics Memory player which is a fancier permutation of Exact Audio Copies perported technology?

A great many here use EAC.  I used it for about a year, up until mgalusha turned me on to Easy CD-DA Extractor.  He and I (and probably others) performed bit-for-bit comparisons with files extracted via EAC and found they were exactly the same.  It's much easier to use than EAC, rips CDs more quickly and was my program of choice until I moved to a Mac platform.

I've never heard nor read a derogatory comment about the Nova Physics player's performance, but the price is the kicker for most.  I'd love an opportunity to compare the MP, Dan Wright's Transporter and a completely modified Bolder SB in my system.  One never knows, but I'd be surprised if the MP's performance would justify the price differential.

[Geardaddy]

Well, as I said I've checked several times whether my ripper (cdparanoia) reads the disc the same every time and it does (to the last bit). Maybe other people have had another experience but this is mine which I offer to you. So EAC and the Memory Player can be that good at reading discs too. But there's no room for them to be better (IME).

Of course there may be other things about the Memory Player that make it sound superior...but I believe reading the data off the disc better than a ripper isn't one of them.
Darren

Understood...

I've never heard nor read a derogatory comment about the Nova Physics player's performance, but the price is the kicker for most.  I'd love an opportunity to compare the MP, Dan Wright's Transporter and a completely modified Bolder SB in my system.  One never knows, but I'd be surprised if the MP's performance would justify the price differential.

Agreed.  I think the MP product suffers from price inflation, unless there is some hidden, heavy duty proprietary technology involved.  I'd love to hear a comparison of those products as well...a "showcase" perchance?

[kbuzz3]

Has anyone look at used this technology?:

Exact Audio Copy:  EAC is a free ripper like iTunes, except that it does multiple reads and corrects any errors and then outputs the signal through your computer's buffered memory.

And how about the Nova Physics Memory player which is a fancier permutation of Exact Audio Copies perported technology?

A great many here use EAC.  I used it for about a year, up until mgalusha turned me on to Easy CD-DA Extractor.  He and I (and probably others) performed bit-for-bit comparisons with files extracted via EAC and found they were exactly the same.  It's much easier to use that EAC, rips CDs more quickly and was my program of choice until I moved to a Mac platform.

I've never heard nor read a derogatory comment about the Nova Physics player's performance, but the price is the kicker for most.  I'd love an opportunity to compare the MP, Dan Wright's Transporter and a completely modified Bolder SB in my system.  One never knows, but I'd be surprised if the MP's performance would justify the price differential.

what do you use now for your mac?

[mcgsxr]

As for dropping bits, the Slimserver s/w has a setting for lowering the preamp sensitivity, so you can keep the volume above 60 (of 100 steps) the place where supposedly you will experience bit loss if below.

Right. Please note however this setting still works with digital attenuation. If you want to match sensitivities using analogue you need to buy some in-line attenuators or use a power amp with variable input sensitivity (assuming the idea is to avoid a preamp).
Regards, Darren

Fair enough, I did not know that.

I run mine full open anyway, and most of my listening is done 70-85 on the SB3 volume.

[Geardaddy]

After reading several reviews of the Nova Physics Memory Player, several questions come to mind which you gurus can take a crack at:

1.  To get at all the data residing on a CD, Mark turned to a process he calls "Read Until Right," or RUR.  Well, simply using the EAC solves that problem (and cheaply)

2.  Mark's next step is to get rid of the data that have to do with the Reed-Solomon Error Correction Code (RS-ECC).    ??  Is this relevant and if so, what if any shareware exists to make this correction?

3.  The last piece of the MP process is the flash memory. As data, using the RUR process, is retrieved it is stored in an electronic, or flash, memory and not on a hard drive. In his investigations, Mark discovered that data read from a hard drive directly will exhibit higher levels of jitter. If however, the data is retrieved from a flash memory, it is far less tainted and practically jitter-free.  Okay, but don't most DACs deal effectively with jitter and to what degree is this necessary sonically?  And if so, how does one bypass HD storage in favor of flash memory...  Anyway, what is irritating about this particular review is that he was using various DACs as well!   Furthermore, the player does not come with a good remote but a laptop.  Rrrrr...

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue28/novaphysics_memoryplayer.htm

[TONEPUB]

I know this isnt terribly scientific, but having the Wadia 170 iDock in for review, I played some wav files ripped to an iPod Nano, which is flash memory and a regular iPod with a hard disk.

I used a Wadia 521 DAC for one test and the DAC section of my Meridian 808i for the other, and the third on the Benchmark DAC-1 USB

In all three instances, it seemed like the files played back from the Nano sounded a bit more natural.  Again, not scientific, but when I had a couple of non audiophile friends over to listen, they all picked the nano every time, so maybe those memory player guys are on to something!!

[darrenyeats]

My opinion is that flash memory and hard disks "shouldn't" sound different because even hard disks buffer their reads into RAM. In other words, nothing gets read directly off a hard disk (or even flash I believe) all data gets read into a RAM chip and from there gets processed, even on an iPod.

However, it is possible that hard disks are more noisy electrically than flash drives, for example. This might affect the iPod circuits and in turn the S/PDIF output from the Wadia iDock. (This is the only possibility that I can think of for Nova Physics' claim about lower jitter with flash...but I note other network players without hard disks are similar.) Was it an optical or coax connection?

Of course another possibility is that it was all in Tonepub's head Personally I'll keep an open mind until something gets proven one way or the other.
Darren

[TONEPUB]

It was a coax connection.  And you are right, it may have been in my head, but when I played the same selection on both ipods, everyone picked the sound of the Nano (flash memory).

What struck me as interesting was that my particular group was not comprised of audiophiles, so they didn't know what I was doing when I switched the ipod and didn't really know what was going on from a tech standpoint.  THey just made comments like "why does the little iPod sound better than the big one?"

So we'll see....

Personally, for serious listening, I'd still rather listen to a CD on a CD player or an LP...
But the music server can't be beat for convenience...

[Double Ugly]

Has anyone look at used this technology?:

Exact Audio Copy:  EAC is a free ripper like iTunes, except that it does multiple reads and corrects any errors and then outputs the signal through your computer's buffered memory.

And how about the Nova Physics Memory player which is a fancier permutation of Exact Audio Copies perported technology?

A great many here use EAC.  I used it for about a year, up until mgalusha turned me on to Easy CD-DA Extractor.  He and I (and probably others) performed bit-for-bit comparisons with files extracted via EAC and found they were exactly the same.  It's much easier to use that EAC, rips CDs more quickly and was my program of choice until I moved to a Mac platform.

I've never heard nor read a derogatory comment about the Nova Physics player's performance, but the price is the kicker for most.  I'd love an opportunity to compare the MP, Dan Wright's Transporter and a completely modified Bolder SB in my system.  One never knows, but I'd be surprised if the MP's performance would justify the price differential.

what do you use now for your mac?

See my post here.

Two evenings ago, I ripped 5 new CDs (3 "standard", 1 x XRCD2, 1 x XRCD24) purchased from Eastwind Import (great source!), and I continue to be impressed with the methodology.  As opposed to using MAX alone (which was just fine IMHO), it appeals to the perfectionist in me. 

Personally, seeing the errors encountered during the ripping process (or lack thereof) helps validate the accuracy of the procedure.

[darrenyeats]

2.  Mark's next step is to get rid of the data that have to do with the Reed-Solomon Error Correction Code (RS-ECC).    ??  Is this relevant and if so, what if any shareware exists to make this correction?

To answer the last part of the puzzle: I believe this a red herring. There are 1 and 0s which were burned on to the disc to begin with, and those 1 and 0s can be read reliably and repeatably by computer-based error detection and correction software and firmware, as has been discussed. So finding a better way to deal with error correction codes on the disc itself - assuming NP have done this - is an academic exercise at most. I believe it doesn't achieve a better result.
Darren

[ted_b]

I use volume pot as a general term; should have said volume control.  Yes, of course it's not a potentiomter; it's digital.   As far as reducing resolution (significant bits a play on words):
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39611

Well, perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't think you need to worry about bits at all:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=51288.0

All I was saying, from the get go, was to watch out for the TP's digital attenuation, for it lops off bits.  I know you blew it off and said that my sentence didn't make sense (thank you; you call a debatable issue that you don't agree with nonsensical?)), but then Srajan's 6Moons preview, just updated, says the exact same thing:
"Using the Transporter's volume control naturally decimates resolution if used for serious attenuation. Purists demand we do our business in the analog domain. I'd run the Transporter with its digital attenuator bypassed. (In practice, if you merely use this feature to trim the volume by a few notches because your preamp or integrated lack remote, don't think twice about it. You've got sufficient bits to throw away before you eat into RedBook's 16-bit standard)."

[Geardaddy]

I know this isnt terribly scientific, but having the Wadia 170 iDock in for review, I played some wav files ripped to an iPod Nano, which is flash memory and a regular iPod with a hard disk.

I used a Wadia 521 DAC for one test and the DAC section of my Meridian 808i for the other, and the third on the Benchmark DAC-1 USB

In all three instances, it seemed like the files played back from the Nano sounded a bit more natural.  Again, not scientific, but when I had a couple of non audiophile friends over to listen, they all picked the nano every time, so maybe those memory player guys are on to something!!

TONEPUB, I like your little experiment, particularly since it involved non-audiophiles (thus removing a serious source of bias).  It corroborates some of what NP is claiming.  Speaking of NP, their memory player generated some nasty threads on the Asylum (http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/digital/messages/13/136279.html).  A lot of computer-oriented philes (including manufacturers) seemed pretty riled by NP's purported technologic breakthroughs.  It smells a lot like the debates generated by engineering types who poo-poo cables and their contribution to sonics.   I think they should be commended for taking a more fundamental stab at data/bit processing.  It is this sort of activity which will drive the digital domain beyond vinyl...       

[kbuzz3]

Last May, we made the move to a computer based system:

Mac Mini
Airport Express Extreme
WD 500GB external drives(2)
Squeezebox 3 (2)

Since then, we have added another 2 750GB WD external drives.  The main drives are attached to the Airport Express Extreme unit.  The Squeezeboxes are driven wirelessly.

We use Itunes to load music (lossless of course).  I use CoverScout to find cover art and update it for use by Slimserver.  CoverScout is fair - can cause problems.  We have auto-backup running every week.  The backup drives are connected to the Mac Mini.

I haven't played a disk on my Audiomeca transport in 8 months and it is not even plugged in today.

For our main system, we use the SB3 digital output into an Audiomeca Dac and it is truly good sound.  For our second system, we use a SB3 direct.  It is OK.

I control everything via the Slimserver web interface and that is OK, not the best.  I am hoping to get an eee laptop soon for use as a dedicated remote.  I can also control stuff from my Phillips Pronto, but it is hard for my old eyes to see the display on the Squeezebox units.

I can say that this is the best thing to happen to our music since I bought my first pair of Dunlavy IVs 15 years ago!  I have discouvered just how good my music collection is and we listen to all kinds of stuff that stayed in the CD drawers before.  It is just so easy to hear anything you wish any time you wish - PLUS - Random play is like a weird soundtrack to your life and often loads tunes that haven't been played in years.  I have also created "playlists" that replicate all my mix disks and now can generate a party mix for a week long blow out (as if my old head could last that long...).

I believe the Macs are a great way to get started - also can be used to store movies and other stuff if you are inclined.  

If I had it to do over or had a few extra bucks to spend, I would definitely get a Modwright transporter.  I think it would be the very best sound you will ever need!

Spudco....im contemplating a similar setup. Are your hard drives hooked up direct to your extreme or are they hooked up directly tot he mac mini?  Most folks i know --including myself-- cant get an extreme to recognize any hard drives.

Secondly, how do you rip with this set up since the mini is headless?
Finally, how did you set this up initally since the mini is of course headless? 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Spudco....im contemplating a similar setup. Are your hard drives hooked up direct to your extreme or are they hooked up directly tot he mac mini?  Most folks i know --including myself-- cant get an extreme to recognize any hard drives.


I have an external drive connected to my Airport Extreme and it works flawlessly. I highly recommend it.


Secondly, how do you rip with this set up since the mini is headless?

You can rip to a headless unit fairly easily. Set iTunes to auto rip upon disc insertion and set it to auto eject upon completion. Also there are tons of apps that will allow remote control of the Mini. NetTunes will allow you to use the iTunes interface on another Mac to control iTunes on the headless Mini. Or a VNC type app will allow full remote control of the whole Mini.