[Russell Dawkins]

From time to time I am asked to transfer old RTR tapes, typically musicians' recital tapes recorded at 3.75 or 7.5  ips, to CDR for continued safekeeping. I know CDR is not forever, but I do use archival quality discs.

I have an old Revox A77, but the play heads are seriously worn and it's a half track anyway with speeds of 7.5 and 15 ips, so of very limited utility as many of the tapes presented to me are 3.75 ips.

My trusty old Sony TC-366 seems to have settled into permanent senile dementia, so I have decided to look for something appropriate on the used market. I don't have much familiarity with RTRs, but from what I have gleaned over the last few weeks, these are machines I might be looking at, the first Sony mentioned only because I can get one locally for $125 - I understand there is some contention about the worth of this machine:

Sony TC-580, TC-765
Pioneer 707
Technics 1520
Teac A-7300
Revox A-77

It is not appropriate to spend a lot on this, as I don't do much of this type of transfer and, moreover, the recording characteristics don't count for anything - just the playback - so flexible EQ is a bonus.

Keep in mind I need 3.75 and 7.5 ips, can do without 1 7/8 and 15 ips, and I live in Victoria, BC.

Can anyone make any recommendations for a reasonably priced (say $200 - 400)  good sounding machine?

Thanks.

[Wayner]

The Revox A77 is my recommendation. I also have a half track but is fully functional.

A good 1/4 track should be easy to get on ebay.

Wayner

[S Clark]

Revox was the standard of the day, followed by Teac, then Sony, and lastly Pioneer and Akai.  Teak probably outsold Revox 10-1 due to price, but head and motor quality were probably close.  I have an old Teac sitting in the garage that will work, but may need new belts--- but definitely try to find one locally.  These were high maintainence machines.  I'd stay away from Ebay.

[richidoo]

A local dealer/repair shop near me has stuff like that. When I was there about a month ago he had a restored R2R player on display, but I don't know the price. He does good work, so it will have new belts, aligned, etc. These are old hifi decks, not pro stuff, so the price and speeds are more inline with what you're looking for.
http://theanalogstore.com

Do you know about baking those 80s era tapes before transfer? Here's a couple links from google:
http://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html
http://www.masterdigital.com/24bit/analogtape.htm
Good luck! 
Rich

[Wayner]

Ebay is a good source for things like this. You just can't be an idiot about it when you bid. Find a quality seller and communicate with him. Get him to garrantee the product. Most are upfront with the products they are selling (avoid estate sales). Find the guy that is the original owner. Stay away from people that make their living on Ebay.

Finding that "other guy" that just happens to have what you are looking for is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Good luck anyway and if I hear of someone that wants to get rid of theirs, I'll let you know.

Wayner

[mgalusha]

Russell,

I have a Pioneer RT-909 sitting in the basement. I friend asked me to check it out and sell it for him a couple of years ago and I've never gotten around to it.  He purchased it while in the USAF in the late 70's  early 80's and it's been in this box since he got out. According to Ric it might have a couple of hundred hours of use on it, perhaps less. It's literally been stored for about 25 years.

If you like I can take it out and check it over, power it up slow on the variac to make sure the caps are all happy and such. I imagine the pinch rollers are dry but a quick google search turns up new ones for about $80.

This runs at 3 3/4 and 7 1/2 IPS and will take 10.5" reels. I don't know what he would like for it but of course I can find out. He's an easy guy to get along with, so I doubt it would be excessive.

Mike

[jipper]

RTR is not my speciality but you must go to www.bottlehead.com if only to read what they are doing with RTR machines today.

try http://www.tapeproject.com/machines/machines.htm

not only are the guys at Bottlehead renovating old tape machines, but they are recording and selling new material (and copies of old masters) on tape!

check it out. and they are near to your Victoria BC location, in Washington state.

jp

[Russell Dawkins]

Yes Mike, go ahead and see if it works. I think I would be interested if it doesn't need immediate overhaul and if the price is reasonable.

If the pinch rollers are just dry, I can probably salvage them with this "rubber renue" stuff that I have (MG chemicals). It really revitalizes dry rubber.

Sounds like you may have the original box and packing (styrofoam). Are you in Colorado?

thanks,

Russell

[mgalusha]

Russell,

Yep, I'm in Colorado, a bit to the south east of Denver.

It's in the original box and I'm pretty sure the styrofoam is in place. I'll pull her out and see how she looks.

It'll only cost you an early copy of International Guitar Night III. Just kidding of course.

mike

[Russell Dawkins]

Heck, I'd send you your own personal mp3 of my favorite track by email, without compression. Just don't tell anyone.

This is just between you, me and the other - what is it? - 11,083 members.

[slbender]

Russell -

Curious how you faired out on this?

MY own personal opinion, Tape Decks a.k.a. - Reel to Reel's are much more variable than Phono Cartridges, CD players, or maybe even Amplifiers ( but probably not Speakers ).

First off, as a working set, most decks that are 20 to 40 years old suffer from either worn heads or other maladies.  Now a truly working RT-909 is generally an excellent sounding set. I've gone over its schematic many times, and really it shouldn't be, but there is just no doubt that it has a synergy and decent transport which makes the RT-909 sound really good ( if working properly ).  However, the tension it places on the tape, if set to factory specs - is quite a bit higher than most other high end decks that I know of.

The RT-909's Record and Play heads are Permalloy, so expect 1200 hours from date of production to worn heads on this set due to the high tension / high friction in the tape path.  As the result is, most sets seen 24, 25, 26 years later, unless used for a month and then NOT, they often have badly worn heads, unless they were replaced once, twice, or three times.  The problem - that was OK back in 1985, when the heads were cheap and readily available.. But today when they are not, it is a problem.

The Pinch Roller's on the Pioneer RT-909 are also known to turn to a noxious, oozing goo, that is extremely difficult to get off.  They just melt, I don't know if its exposure to sulfur, or alcohol, or the SUN, or what, but I once had to clean off the goo on a set and it took me days, and the plastic nearby was marred by it.

Other problems cause the RT-909 to become defective, the micro-switches used are often failing, and the capstan belt needs to be replaced every ten years, and on my own RT-909 Recording and Playing in the forward direction does sound great, but in Reverse, Play sounds like the same recording was taped from inside a barrel, I suspect a capacitor problem there. The Forward and Reverse Play heads have separate preamplifier circuits. Weird? Yup!~!  And possibly twice as many components to fail.  So, beyond the items that Pioneer Factory Service bulletins addressed on this set, there are perhaps four or five known failure modes to be addressed to get a properly working set (if its a low hours / good heads unit to begin with).

I find that in General, Permalloy heads seem to sound better than Ferrite based heads, not sure why, its like different CD Players or different brands of Phono Cartridges, long term listening and long term reactions to such. Then again, some Ferrite heads are known to suffer from cracking and breakage at the edges of the surface which might mean any unprotected Ferrite surface will be deteriorated long before any wear sets in. I've even seen the Akai GX heads where the glass covers the ferrite surface and they were worn and did have head cracks or chunks out of the surface when viewed under magnification, then again, unprotected ferrite head surfaces usually look worse.

Can't say much about the Dokorder Molybdenum hard heads, never heard a Dokorder set that was working, those sets had many transport related problems. Diamond surface heads were apparently limited to cassette decks and video equipment. Have recently obtained a Kenwood 8077 (6 heads, 7" reels) with their Super-Ferrite Heads, but its' a very recent acquisition, and I have not done any listening with it yet, but it does have what I consider a fairly well designed (read: impressive) transport.

My own choices for the Best Sounding set to use for a Playback Source - would be ( perhaps in generally specific order ) - a Kenwood KW-8077; Sansui SD-7000; a Revox A-77 or B-77; an RT-909 if working; an Akai Dual Capstan Deck, such as the PRO-1000; GX-400D; or GX-650D; an Akai GX-600D; Akai GX-266D MKII; or GX-255.

Any of the above may suffer from other non-head related problems or failures so YMMV.

I've often thought about adapting/mounting some mint, later, Akai GX Heads from say a GX-77; or Dokorder Molybdenum heads; or maybe some Kenwood Super-Ferrite's in place of the 4 Permalloy heads on the Pioneer RT-909's head block, along with some better Neoprene Pinch Rollers, or maybe even a special pinch roller based upon a quality Bearing just to see if the resulting Frankken- recorder would sound good, better, great, or what...


-- Steven L. Bender, Designer of Vintage Audio Equipment

Yes Mike, go ahead and see if it works. I think I would be interested if it doesn't need immediate overhaul and if the price is reasonable.

If the pinch rollers are just dry, I can probably salvage them with this "rubber renue" stuff that I have (MG chemicals). It really revitalizes dry rubber.

Sounds like you may have the original box and packing (styrofoam). Are you in Colorado?

thanks,

Russell

[Russell Dawkins]

Sorry, Steven, I was away for a month on vacation and just now got to your post - I had well over a thousand emails to wade through.

I eventually got a Pioneer RT 707 and am perfectly happy with it. I traded a Revox A77 that need a head for it, and so far I'm pleased with the way it works and sounds.

I have no reason to go for absolute quality as my need for this deck generally involves transferal of archival material of no great importance. If something more important should come up, I would refer to another studio or rent a better deck, like a Studer or B77 just for the job.

Russell

[lazydays]

From time to time I am asked to transfer old RTR tapes, typically musicians' recital tapes recorded at 3.75 or 7.5  ips, to CDR for continued safekeeping. I know CDR is not forever, but I do use archival quality discs.

I have an old Revox A77, but the play heads are seriously worn and it's a half track anyway with speeds of 7.5 and 15 ips, so of very limited utility as many of the tapes presented to me are 3.75 ips.

My trusty old Sony TC-366 seems to have settled into permanent senile dementia, so I have decided to look for something appropriate on the used market. I don't have much familiarity with RTRs, but from what I have gleaned over the last few weeks, these are machines I might be looking at, the first Sony mentioned only because I can get one locally for $125 - I understand there is some contention about the worth of this machine:

Sony TC-580, TC-765
Pioneer 707
Technics 1520
Teac A-7300
Revox A-77

It is not appropriate to spend a lot on this, as I don't do much of this type of transfer and, moreover, the recording characteristics don't count for anything - just the playback - so flexible EQ is a bonus.

Keep in mind I need 3.75 and 7.5 ips, can do without 1 7/8 and 15 ips, and I live in Victoria, BC.

Can anyone make any recommendations for a reasonably priced (say $200 - 400)  good sounding machine?

Thanks.

find a Technics in good condition. It was by far the class of the field for most users, and was rather common in studios as well.
gary

[Russell Dawkins]

Thanks Gary but, as I say, I bought a Pioneer RT 707 and am very happy with it.
It sounds good, appears to be in good shape and as a bonus it is standard rack width which means it doesn't steal a lot of rack space because it is deep and wide rather than high. It even has rack "ears".

Russell

[lazydays]

Thanks Gary but, as I say, I bought a Pioneer RT 707 and am very happy with it.
It sounds good, appears to be in good shape and as a bonus it is standard rack width which means it doesn't steal a lot of rack space because it is deep and wide rather than high. It even has rack "ears".

Russell

I have a 707 setting in my storage rack. Owned it for a couple eons, and it works pretty good. But a few weeks ago a buddy of mine ask me what I thought his old Revox B77 was worth, and if I might even be interested in taking it off his hands. The only reason I kept the 707 is that I have a bunch of live miced bootlegs from several jazz fests.
   One thing I do remember well about the 707 is the heat it generates! Keep it well vented!! I almost set mine up like a lot of studios do with the face being in a horizontal position, but at the time was really kind of afraid of the heat. Now I'd just add a couple muffen fans
gary