[Joe_K]

This may be a silly question, but I'm curious to hear from those whom either own both or have heard both the Sapphire XLs and the Emerald XLs. What is the difference(s) in sonics? How well do you think the Emeralds would compliment the Sapphires in a multichannel music system. And as the HiDef movie stuff becomes more common with full range, full bandwidth rear channels?
Mike just keeps tempting us with more deals! 

Thanks,
Joe

[griller]

Joe, I own Emeralds and Sapphires. I use 5 Emeralds in my HT and they do a superb job. I've got the Sapphire XLs in my dedicated 2-channel rig and they are one of the finest speakers I have ever heard, and yes, I've heard a lot of fine systems by all the big names.  To answer your question,  the EMeralds would make great rears or surrounds with Sapphires up front.  They have a very similar character, the biggest difference being they simply don't have the dynamics or the low bass of the larger Sapphires.

[Mike Dzurko]

I've heard them both many times, in many different setups    Griller is right on with his comments. Think of the Emerald XL as a little brother . . .  ( a good little brother, not the naughty one). We purposely made it sound as much like the Sapphire XL as possible, with the exception of bass extension and output capability.  I used a pair as rears in a previous HT setup with excellent matching. 

[griller]

Last night I threw my Sapphire XLs into the main positions in my HT.  Really, really nice. Compared to the Emeralds they are fuller in tonal balance allow even more detail through.  Today I'm moving them back to my two-channel rig.  As funding permits, I now think my path of upgrades will be adding a pair of Force XLs to my two-channel setup, and after that, getting a pair of Sapphire XLs for mains in my HT and adding the XLC center.  Meantime, I'm very happy with what I've got running in both rooms.

[Joe_K]

Thanks Griller and Mike for the comments. I wasn't thinking of changing the surrounds, not at this time, but the NOW sale has me tempted to go ACI all the way around.
Griller thanks for swapping your speakers around  and commenting. If you do upgrade your HT, the XLC is a great center, one of the best I've heard.
Joe

[griller]

A set of Emerald XLs with a Force XL is about the same money as a pair of Sapphire XLs. If a friend was asking you which way to choose, which would you recommend and why?  Yes, I own all three of the above products and have my ideas. But I'm curious what others think on this.

[Mike Dzurko]

A set of Emerald XLs with a Force XL is about the same money as a pair of Sapphire XLs. If a friend was asking you which way to choose, which would you recommend and why?  Yes, I own all three of the above products and have my ideas. But I'm curious what others think on this.

I’d consider the following when making my decision or making the recommendation.  How large is the listening space?  Where do you have to place the speakers? Is the budget fixed and firm or is there room for future upgrades?  What is the rest of the system like? Is it likely to be upgraded?  What kind of volume levels do you want to get?

A pair of Sapphire XLs allows a number of upgrade paths. Add a single Force XL or Titan XL or add go all the way and go to stereo subs. This system is very scalable to various room sizes, and need for greater dynamic range. It’s possible to have a very musical and involving system for less than $3000 including source, cables and amplification. Or you can scale it up significantly with a pair of stereo subs, the source and amps of your dreams, etc. and have a $10K-$20K system that will crack plaster and sound absolutely stunning.
 
The Emerald XL- Force XL combo is a pretty cool setup in its own right. When we moved into our new house last summer, I needed a music fix fast! I set up a pair of Sapphire XLs in the living room fed by an old NAD Rec/CD combo. The speakers were on stands, but I couldn’t move them very far out into the room. This room is also pretty live with a lot of glass, hardwood floors, some marble. Adding a big oriental rug in the center helped a lot. The bass was a bit lumpy, and I knew this was because they were too close to that back wall. Pulling them out took care of it, but was overruled by the boss. A week later they were sold, and I brought home a pair of Emerald XLs and a Force XL. With the Emerald XLs in the same “too far back” placement, this really sounds good. I decided to setup the sub by ear rather than pulling out the measurement tools. Didn’t take long and this setup really sings. In this room, with these placement limitations, and this source, the Emerald XL-Force XL combo is a better fit. Sure, if I could pull the speakers out another foot or so the Sapphires rule, but can’t get approval for that.

Either setup is killer, which is the better choice for you, just depends. 

[Joe_K]

Griller,
I'll try to comment on your question in a couple of weeks. I went ahead and got a pair of Emeralds to try as I'm sure they'll better match the Sapphires than others I have around, the NOW sale made it all the more tempting. (I really need another pair of speakers like I need a hole in the head!) I must say though with the Sapphires running full range, (no sub) they are quite impressive with works such as Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake or Sheffield's drum and track disk, just to name a couple. My Maestro has been off for a few weeks to enjoy the Sapphires by themselves. I got the Maestro because I'm in a large room, the Titan was very nice but...I haven't heard the force yet.
I'll let you know when I get the Emeralds broke in.
Joe

[pardales]

Is a 30-day home trial still in effect at the sale prices?

I like my current speakers very much (Lowther DX3 based single driver in a bass reflex cabinet) but have always wondered whether a sub/monitor system might not be really nice in my room. My room is 12x18x8, so it is a medium to small room with lots of wood and soft furniture. I have to place my speakers in corners on the short wall. The corners are capable of really reinforcing bass in my room -- I know this because I have single-driver speakers in the corners and the bass is quite good, but I have wondered how much deep bass I am missing something.

I cannot bring the speakers more 16-20 inches from the front wall. If that is sufficient, the Sapphires alone might do as my corners really do make bass. Then again, the Emeralds and force might work for me the same way they did for Mike (described above). Finally, I do not play music loud, in fact, hi-resolution at low volumes is an absolute must. Most of my listening is late night when others are sleeping.

I have never used a sub and am not tech-savy, so I am apprehensive about something I have to do a lot of adjusting or complex hook-up. Thoughts?

Best,

[griller]

I would not put Sapphires in corners. They are very potent in the bass and in corners the bass is just going to be too much. They sound wonderfully balanced on stands, out in the room in a conventional placement. I think a pair of Emeralds and Force would be perfect for you. Though they have excellent bass quality the Emeralds do roll off in the bass. I've actually tried a pair in a near corner placement and it worked great. The Force will allow you to tune your bass in to your desires and room. Don't be intimidated, I was and I'm sure glad I got over it because the end result is terrific. You'll have to invest some time and effort into adjusting the sub, but to me that became an excellent learning and fun thing.

[pardales]

Griller: I appreciate the feedback. I was actually leaning towards trying the Sapphire's. So you think only being able to pull them 16-20 inches away from the wall is not enough?

Thanks,

[griller]

Griller: I appreciate the feedback. I was actually leaning towards trying the Sapphire's. So you think only being able to pull them 16-20 inches away from the wall is not enough?

Thanks,

I think 16-20" from a wall is probably okay, but from a corner, no way. Corners just load up the bass like crazy. I really think you've got the ideal situation to make a set of Emeralds and Force make some great music.

[Mike Dzurko]

Griller covered this pretty well and I agree   

Putting Sapphire XLs in corner placement would almost certainly result in too much bass. Any speaker that is designed for nearly full range response is not going to sound good near a corner (unless specifically designed to use the corner).

From what you've described I would recommend going with a pair of Emerald XLs and a Force XL. You will have tremendous flexibility and the adjustability of the sub will allow you to get just the right balance in your placement and room. As you might imagine, I am an extremely picky listener and the Emerald Xl - Force XL combo is very enjoyable.

[DR]

Greetings,

I am going to second (or third) the Emerald's and Force XL. I have both the Sapphire XL's, Emerald XL's and the Force XL. The Sapphire's are very balanced but are so potent that they need lots of room. This is both from the sides and particularly the back wall. In my setup I have yet been able to run them without at least Mike's 65Hz crossover's.

The Emerald's roll off enough to avoid common room nodes and the Force - well it can do pretty much anything.

My two cents.

DR

[pardales]

I appreciate all the insight. 

[jrebman]

I must say though with the Sapphires running full range, (no sub) they are quite impressive with works such as Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake or Sheffield's drum and track disk, just to name a couple. My Maestro has been off for a few weeks to enjoy the Sapphires by themselves.

And aren't they just inhcredibly satisfying without the sub?  I'm still dialing in my system, and prefer to get things right with the mains before attempting to get the sub into the mix, so my ForceXL still waits patienhtly inh the corner behind the left Sapphire.

This past weekend I did some critical placement of the speakers and finally got them off the carpet sliders and in direct contact with the brass discs on the hardwood floor.  I also removed the ACI sorbathane dots and replaced them with Herbie's Big Black Dots -- as the next step in finding the right mounting arrangement.

All this led to new places with the Sapphires -- I have the backs of the speakers about 22" from the front wall, and no sidewall issues to worry about, and the soundstage just opened wide up, everything got more focused, and my usual smiles got even bigger.  I've now had a number of folks over -- both casual and serious listeners and they all have nothing but good things to say about what they're hearing.  All, and I mean all of them, experienced or not, ask if the sub (or big box in the corner" is on, and I show them the AC cable and that it's not plugged in, and then they're even more impressed.  I said not to worry, I asked the same question the first time I heard them too.

I got the big Cayin amp up onj some Herbie's Tall Tenderfeet, and put titanium dampers on all the preamp tubes, and I got a new amploifoier.  Next step is to roll some cryoed TS 6550s, and some NOS pre anhd rectifier tubes until I find the right combo, then it's sub time.

A few weeks back I was under the impression that the 55 watt PP amp couldn't really drive the Sapphires well enough as I thought it was clipping and coming apart at the seams at higher volumes, but a few experiments, finished off with the tenderfeet, confirmed that it was actually a mechanical feedback issue -- the Sapphires were shaking my 240 pound Mapleshade rack, and the amp didn't like it very much.

Now I'm really liking this amp with these speakers, and also find, nmuch to my surprise that I vastly prefer the UL mode to triode mode -- which was not the case with other speakers I used with this amp.

One of my more critical audiophile friends was over last week for a short while, laughing at the fact that I had yet another pair of speakers -- there's beena different pair inhere just about everytimje he has comje over in the past few years -- and then he sat down for a listen.  Then there was silence -- no hemming and hawing, no sighs, no "whatever floats your boat" comments, etc.  Just, "Wow, you've really moved into the big leagues now, and this is by far the best thing I've ever heard at your house.  Very, very nice."  Then I told him that they were the smallest, lightest, and second to least expensive speakers I've ever owned.  Another "wow" moment.

At this point, I think the only way I'd give these up is if somebody walked in here and gave me a pair of Kharma Mini Exquisites, but at $50k+, I'm not counmting on that happening anytime soon

The point?  Yes, I love them, but the real point is that they can be immensely satisfying just by themselves --- I can't imagine where the sub and maybe a 65 hz HP filter will take me.

-- Jim

[sabes]

Jim: very interested to hear how you like things with the sub. i listened to the sapphire's a while back at jeff goldman audio here in ct and was very impressed, although not in the market at the time (is there really such a thing in this hobby? ). glad to hear how well things are going.

[Joe_K]

A set of Emerald XLs with a Force XL is about the same money as a pair of Sapphire XLs. If a friend was asking you which way to choose, which would you recommend and why?  Yes, I own all three of the above products and have my ideas. But I'm curious what others think on this.

Griller,
I'll try to comment on your question in a couple of weeks.
I'll let you know when I get the Emeralds broke in.
Joe

Griller,
I've put over 60hrs. on the Emeralds, first impressions weren't very positive, but I went ahead and started the break-in. Much better sounding after 10 -20 hrs and still improving. A very fine, accurate speaker.
I don't recall the Sapphires being quite as dramatic a change during break-in? Although the Sapphires did require/benefit from break-in.
To answer your question I would go with the Sapphires, there's just something very special about them. Almost magical! I can't imagine how Mikes' going to come out with anything better?
The Sapphires do everything so well, close your eyes and they disappear. Become one with the music, no listening fatigue, pure enjoyment. What more can I say that hasn't been said somewhere?

I hope I didn't reiterate other comments, both are fine systems to be enjoyed for years to come.
Joe