[dcktr]

     I am a skeptic by heart. I have a hard time believing that every time someones makes a cable change, rolls a tube, or adds some colored rocks that there is more low level detail, or there is additional warmth and depth in the midrange (or whatever). How deep can the bass go, or how warm can the midrange get?
     I had a Bolder digital modded SB3 and a paradisea with WE396 tube. Sounded great. Non fatiguing, I am a tube guy. In an effort to simplify my system I sold the paradisea and had the statement level mods done to my SB3. (I have a modded elpac also) Well for a lack of psychoacoustic pronouns and adjectives, I can say it is better. Noticeably better. I sat back on the couch. "holy sh*t" Closed my eyes and listened.
Thanks Wayne

[anthony a.]

this is exactly the thread i was looking for.  i have been using my bolder digital modded (gold) sb3 with paradisea dac (bendix 2c51) and it has served me very well for the last year.  now, having moved into a new house and new room, the sound is good, but not as good as my old room (i had it for years and it was setup perfectly).  in any case, im wondering if i should go for the analog mod and sell the digital sb3 with paradisea.  but, im not sure.  in way way do you say that the analog mod is better than the digital with paradisea?

[Charles Calkins]

Six of one and half a dozen of the other. Some guys prefer the analogue mods. Others(Me)prefer the digital mods. I can always change DAC's but if I had the analogue mods I'd be stuck with it. Either way you can't go wrong. Anything Wayne gets his hands on to mod you can bet your sweet bippy it'll be a lot better than stock.

                                                       Cheers
                                                      Charlie

[bpape]

I have the full statement level Bolder mod SB3 and also have the Paradesea.  I've moved the Paradesea to the 2nd system on a different SB and the statement mod is in the big system.    Digital out to the Paradesea is very good - but not the same level as the full blown analog out of the statement mod SB3.

Bryan

[mcgsxr]

I cannot compare a modded SB3 directly to a DAC, because I sold off all the gear I could, once I got the Bolder SB3.  I sold off a tubed pre, a Monarchy SuperDIP, assorted cables, my cd player, AND a highly modded Bolder DAC.  I then bought an upgraded power supply - but my gear is about 2 years out of date, so the sound I treasure does not even represent the best currently available.

I use the analog outputs direct to my tube amp.

The convenience and quality is perfect for me.  But, I have to concede that I run a budget system, and much of it is DIY, so I know that my system is not the benchmark.  But some who have heard the modded SB3 have subsequently bought their own, for use in their systems, so it must be showcasing something good.

I have had Wayne mod assorted gear of mine in the past - Teac tripath amp, DAC (more than once!), my SB3, and I have bought cables off him.  He takes good care to produce a product that delivers, and he takes excellent care of his customers.

[anthony a.]

I have the full statement level Bolder mod SB3 and also have the Paradesea.  I've moved the Paradesea to the 2nd system on a different SB and the statement mod is in the big system.    Digital out to the Paradesea is very good - but not the same level as the full blown analog out of the statement mod SB3.

Bryan

okay, so to make sure we both have the same ears , i find the paradisea to be a very relaxing and laid back dac that perhaps is not the most dynamic and live, but more on the mellow side and lush.  i really like it for this quality as i can just sit back and fall into the music as it is relaxing.  on more energetic music, i feel it doesn't quite do well, obviously lacking drive, prat and dynamics when needed.  do you find the same characteristics in your system from the paradisea?  if yes, how does the statement mods differ/relate to the paradisea's strengths and weaknesses?

thanks.

[anthony a.]

mark, thanks for the post.  i read in another thread you're from burlington.  im from mississauga and would love to meet up with you some time soon (if you'd like).  i could bring along my sb3 and dac to compare to your analog mod sb3.  perhaps when the snow eases up a little in this nice province of ours!!!

[bpape]

Pretty much the same general impression. The Paradesea in my system was a step in the right direction and I enjoyed it very much.  It is very easy to listen to and ignore.  Then I borrowed a full modded Bolder and did a comparison.  In my system for my taste, it was an easy choice.  I normally don't pull the trigger on something new without a lot of research and consideration.  This was done the next day.

I find the Bolder mod to be more lively but not forward in any way - still relaxing and easy to listen to - but when called for, it will jump.  It's more detailed, but not etched at all and not at the expense of warmth and smoothness.  It has better dynamics, better bottom end extension and control, and a quieter background.  I also find it tonally more accurate but still retaining some of the warmth of the tube DAC.  

All this was with a tweaked Bolder Rev1 power supply.  Since then, I've added Waynes latest Ultimate PS with the AKSA circuitry included.  More of the same.  More blackness, better bottom end, more dynamics, etc.

Bryan

[denjo]

For me, the digital out from the SB3 into an Altmann Attraction DAC (both powered by Paul Hynes' brilliant shunt regulated linear PSU) was my ticket to audio nirvana. I tried the SB3 briefly with the digital out feeding a Paradisea (stock but with WE386) but the Altmann DAC was much better in every respect.

[mcgsxr]

Anthony, you are welcome to sort out the drive west (I am likely within 20 miles of you) once Mother Nature sorts us out, but I think you might need to bring a preamp too, unless you use the digital volume with your DAC, I don't use a pre right now, it is straight into the power amp from my SB3.

I would also point out that my speakers are DIY, and the room unfinished, so it will be a "raw" experience, but I am happy to oblige!

I look forward to it!

[anthony a.]

okay mark, thanks that would be great.  i'll pm you as soon as the weathers better and we can meet up.  im really looking forward to this as im contemplating simplifying my system a bit but also getting better sound.  btw, i notice that everytime a firmware update is available for my sb3, it forces me to update the player.  how do most of you avoid this, since you must use the earlier firmware with the bolded modded analog for the inverse phase?

[mcgsxr]

There are 2 ways.

1 - simply alter your speaker cable connections, to restore phase - works great, and is fine if you ONLY use your SB3 as a source - other sources would then be out of phase though
2 - mgalusha built and posted a firmware switching application - check in the Square Circle - this allows simple, fast swaps of the firmware

I use #1, since I have a single source system.

[Normanality]

Question from a now confused person......

I have a Bolder modded SB3 and am using the analog out directly into my amps.

I'm running firmware 81.   According to the slim devices forum, the phase inverting issue was resolved via firmware many moons ago.

Is this true? 

[mcgsxr]

I am sure that Wayne is the best person to answer this one, as he will know the specifics of your mod best.

I use the same firmware as you.  All firmware after 15 no longer inverts absolute phase.

The modded SB3 inverts absolute phase.  Firmware 15 inverts absolute phase.  When used in conjunction, absolute phase is preserved.  If using only 1 of these, then absolute phase is inverted.

As I have the modded unit, and use firmware other than 15, I swap my + and - speaker terminals, so that absolute phase is preserved.

I am sure there is an easier way to explain it, but I am doing my best!

[Wayne1]

Question from a now confused person......

I have a Bolder modded SB3 and am using the analog out directly into my amps.

I'm running firmware 81.   According to the slim devices forum, the phase inverting issue was resolved via firmware many moons ago.

Is this true? 

Kinda, sorta, maybe 

The early Slim Devices firmware did invert absolute phase for a STOCK SB. This was corrected in all releases past firmware 15.

Part of the analog only mod removes the analog output IC for "better" fidelity and a shorter signal path. The analog output IC normally inverts the phase of a signal fed into it.

So, with the IC removed the output phase of the modded SB is reversed from that of the stock unit. If you use any firmware past 15 you should reverse the signal polarity somewhere in your system to maintain absolute polarity.

This is most easily accomplished by changing the + and - connections at your speakers OR amplifier.

Quite a few tube preamps invert phase due to their circuit design.

In any case, you should LISTEN to your system with a mono recording and compare the sound with your speaker polarity wired "normal" and then reversed. Please remember to turn off the amp before you go switching around speaker wires. The connection where the mono recording is locked in the middle between your speakers is the correct one. If it sounds diffuse and floating between speakers, that is out of phase.

This topic is covered here I also have a link to this post in the description of the mods on the BOLDER Cables website. I do strongly suggest that anyone who is interested in the mods read it before they place an order.

[Normanality]

Thanks Wayne.   I read exactly opposite of what you said above LOL.

In your other thread you state "The analog modded BOLDER SB2 and SB3 have had the analog op-amp removed. This is done to allow the cleanest signal to come through. The DAC chip is connected through high quality capacitors to directly to the RCA jacks. With the op-amp gone the signal phase is not changed. In a stock SB, the signal is inverted as it passes through the op-amp."


I took that to mean that the unmodded unit inverts the signal and with the mods, the phase is correct. 

My bad   

[anthony a.]

okay, i just read the info you post wayne.  i remember reading that someone had developed a firmware selector to revert back to the earlier 15 firmware, but once you change to 15, won't the sb3 alert you everytime its turned on to upgrade the firmware to the latest?  in my system, i have 5 different sources coming off my pre, so i can't change the + and - on the speakers although i realize that would be the easiest fix for the issue if one only uses the sb3 as a single source as mark does.  but, in my case that i can't do that, what would you suggest as being the best solution?  is there a way to turn off the automatic sb3 firmware upgrade (i am able to do this with slimserver software).  also, are you saying that firmware 15 won't be stable with newer versions of slimserver such as sc7?

[Wayne1]

Thanks Wayne.   I read exactly opposite of what you said above LOL.

In your other thread you state "The analog modded BOLDER SB2 and SB3 have had the analog op-amp removed. This is done to allow the cleanest signal to come through. The DAC chip is connected through high quality capacitors to directly to the RCA jacks. With the op-amp gone the signal phase is not changed. In a stock SB, the signal is inverted as it passes through the op-amp."


I took that to mean that the unmodded unit inverts the signal and with the mods, the phase is correct. 

My bad   

Your reading is correct if you use firmware 15 or earlier. All of the later revisions of the firmware corrected this for the stock SB.

but, in my case that i can't do that, what would you suggest as being the best solution?  is there a way to turn off the automatic sb3 firmware upgrade (i am able to do this with slimserver software).  also, are you saying that firmware 15 won't be stable with newer versions of slimserver such as sc7?

You can turn off the automatic software upgrades with SlimCenter 7.0. I do not know how it reacts using Firmware 15.

If you are using multiple sources into a pre-amp, I first suggest you LISTEN to your system with speaker polarity "correct" and then reversed to determine if you can hear a difference between all of your sources. If you can, then you can take different steps to address the problems. If the SB is out of phase with the rest of your sources, you can use the inguz eq software. It has a phase inversion toggle in it's software. I understand the software does use a fair amount of your computer's resources. You can not use the analog outputs. Use the digital out either into a preamp/ processor or an outboard DAC. Make sure the outboard DAC doesn't invert phase. You can look for a pre-amp that offers a phase inversion switch. You can add a transformer after the SB wired to invert phase. You can also install a speaker switching bow that can reverse the polarity of your speakers when you listen to your SB.

None of these "solutions" are really simple or easy. The analog output phase CAN be corrected in firmware, but Slim Devices has so far not done so. They do offer a phase switch for the Transporter in software. You might wish to file a "bug" report with Slim Devices asking them to add this feature to SlimCenter 7.0


Using Firmware 15 does maintain polarity with the modded SB. I am not sure how well it works with the newer software. I stopped using Firmware 15 some time ago. I like the features of the newer firmware a lot more and it sounds VERY good to me. I use the digital out of my SBs in systems with multiple sources. In my dedicated two channel system, I only use a SB with Ultimate PS into a Buffer into an amp. I invert the polarity of the speaker wires in this set-up.

There is no easy way to change the polarity of the output signal of the modded SB in the current case. If my re-box project comes about, an output transformer can be added to handle this.

In the meantime, if you want to use the analog output into a system with multiple sources and maintain correct phase, you should use a stock unit, the digital output of the SB into an outboard DAC or a Transporter. Unfortunately none of those options, to my ears, sound as good as the analog output of a Statement modded SB using an Ultimate Nirvana PS into a Buffer.

[DSK]

...
None of these "solutions" are really simple or easy. The analog output phase CAN be corrected in firmware, but Slim Devices has so far not done so. They do offer a phase switch for the Transporter in software. You might wish to file a "bug" report with Slim Devices asking them to add this feature to SlimCenter 7.0 ...

I wouldn't hold my breath. There was a request previously for phase reversal on the SB. Eventually a note appeared in the request saying that it had now been done for Transporter and was closed without (from memory) even a reference to the SB.    I basically stopped bothering with the SD forum after that.

[JEaton]

I wouldn't hold my breath. There was a request previously for phase reversal on the SB. Eventually a note appeared in the request saying that it had now been done for Transporter and was closed without (from memory) even a reference to the SB.

It's been reopened: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1976

I don't know that I'd hold my breath, either, but it may happen with a little more encouragement.