De Cappo i upper midrange prominence?

Glenn Andre · « **on:** 1 Oct 2003, 09:49 pm »

I'm looking at getting De Cappo "i" version speakers. However, I recently read a review in UHF where the panel reviewers all reported upper mid prominence especially noticeable on female voices. On some material they noted that the De Cappos sounded shrill. Anyone else experience this problem? I am thinking of driving them with 300B SETs.

brucegel · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Oct 2003, 02:10 am »

No shrillness in Seattle.The decaps i are not shrill and certainly 300b's will smooth out the mids.Remember the live attributes of this speaker come with a less than stellar frequency performance and distortion spec.Trade offs are inevitable.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Oct 2003, 02:59 am »

The UHF review I have is for the MM De Capo's not the MM De Capo I. From what I understand, the MM De Capo I's have a more refined high frequency, but I have not compared them side by side.

Paul L · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Oct 2003, 03:01 am »

UHF has the review of the De Capos i in current issue.

cyounkman · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Oct 2003, 03:02 am »

I've always thought there was a bit of upper-midrange, say, 'orientation' in the older De Capos (the non-'i' version), but not so much with the 'i' model. Do you have a link to the review you're referring to? Are they talking about the older De Capo or the i?

cyounkman · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Oct 2003, 03:07 am »

Oh. Thanks, MC. That's what I figured.

Paul: Is the review online anywhere? All I can find is the TOC. Interestingly, they also review the Living Voice Avatar OBX-R in the same issue; the two speakers seem to be Hi Fi+ Editor Roy Gregory's high-efficiency reference speakers.

I haven't heard the old DC and the i side-by-side, but there are definitely over-all voicing differences which seem apparent, having heard the i with a lot of equipment with which I'm familiar.

EDIT: I've added the DCi review in the review archive thread. Also of note: the De Capo i has finally been included in the TAS Editors Choice list.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Oct 2003, 03:16 am »

Quote

Also of note: the De Capo i has finally been included in the TAS Editors Choice list.

It's about damn time!!! Did you notice they talk nothing of the sound in that small write up in the TAS? That kind of pissed me off.

Hey, I just heard my MM De Capo I's with Sonic Frontiers Power 3 tube monoblocks. Nice sound, but really didn't kill my VTL MB 125's in dynamics like I thought they would. In fact, I like the triode VTL sound more than the SF!!!! A little more romantic, but the SF was so neutral it came off as cool in comparison. And all of you should know, I like clarity but I don't like cool. I'm warm blooded baby!

cyounkman · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Oct 2003, 04:19 am »

Quote from: mcrespo71

It's about damn time!!! Did you notice they talk nothing of the sound in that small write up in the TAS? That kind of pissed me off.

They tend to speak of the sound in generalities, if at all, in the little micro-blurbs... My take is that you don't know anything about the de capos (or really any other speaker) until you've heard them--with a big SET! [sorry--I lost control there...]

Quote from: mcrespo71

Hey, I just heard my MM De Capo I's with Sonic Frontiers Power 3 tube monoblocks. Nice sound, but really didn't kill my VTL MB 125's in dynamics like I thought they would. In fact, I like the triode VTL sound more than the SF!!!! A little more romantic, but the SF was so neutral it came off as cool in comparison. And all of you should know, I like clarity but I don't like cool. I'm warm blooded baby!

Interesting to hear. For me this reinforces the notion that the DCs are all about amplifier quality, almost entirely irrespective of power rating. I like to belive that the point of diminishing returns in terms of amp quality is much lower than most people think--IF giant power and the ability to control wayward speakers are not a requirement. Exit soapbox left... I'd love to hear a comparison of the MB-125s and the TT-25s sometime, just to see how much difference the power makes.

Are the SF3s PP?

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Oct 2003, 04:47 am »

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Are the SF3s PP?

Yes, push-pull. They sound great on my friends Wilson Watt Puppy 6's, but the De Capo I's just don't need that much tube power.

Does anyone in the NYC area own a pair of VTL TT25's? We could do a shootout at my apartment!!

My bet is that the TT25's will sound better on the De Capo I's. I've heard them and they are sure lovely sounding. I already own the MB 125's so I don't feel the need to move down the product line, though I am very impressed with the sheer beauty and resolution of the TT25's. Not as flexible as some of the other VTL amps, but for the MM De Capo I's, I really don't think it matters, especially since that head banger Chris drove his De Capo I's with a 4WPC SE amp!!!!

I'd ask Sound by Singer for a demo, but I've been labeled as a tire kicker there for coming in twice and not buying. To get the demo, though, I'd have to buy em first and I don't feel like doing that.

cyounkman · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Oct 2003, 03:20 pm »

Try posting in the NYC circle. Somebody's gotta have them...

brucegel · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Oct 2003, 05:04 pm »

Well it's been 9months of living with the tt25 decapo i combo and I am very satisfied with 90% of what I listen to.If you guys are ever in Seattle feel free to visit.Curious if anyone has any experience with the berning amps?

cyounkman · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Oct 2003, 06:52 pm »

Quote from: brucegel

...and I am very satisfied with 90% of what I listen to.

Just out of curiosity, bruce; what's the 10%?

brucegel · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Oct 2003, 07:04 pm »

The 10% is large orchestral works which frankly no speaker can reproduce because of pure physical laws of mass and power requirements.Only the top of the line sound labs can fake it on occasion in my opinion.

cyounkman · « **Reply #13 on:** 2 Oct 2003, 08:10 pm »

OK; so are you talking about a limitation of the tt25s or of the de capos?

brucegel · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 Oct 2003, 01:03 am »

I am talking about both.From my experience you would need thousands of watts(imagine thousands of set watts) and massive speakers spanning large surface areas.Someday someone will figure out how to inexpensively imbed in the first inch or so of your entire living room or sound room wall a charged stat unit.I should only live so long to hear it! Then coupled with 10,000 watts or more(necessary to replicate real dynamic swings in the real world)you would have something orders of magnitude better than anything anyone has ever owned or dreamed of. I live only 5 miles away as the crow flies from Bill Gates...maybe I'll see if he's game to try it. :wink:

brucegel · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 Oct 2003, 02:17 am »

One other thing crossed my mind.The future of audio won't look like boxes and racks and cables and silly lifts to keep them from your staticky carpet.In fact the next generation will know only plasma screens and won't know analog from a cod piece.O.K. maybe two generations.And all this whining about the speakers cluttering the living room and or sticking out too much from the back wall won't matter because the speakers will be hidden IN the wall.And wireless will be presumed for all connectivity.I should live so long.

Glenn Andre · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 Oct 2003, 11:54 pm »

Quote from: cyounkman

I've always thought there was a bit of upper-midrange, say, 'orientation' in the older De Capos (the non-'i' version), but not so much with the 'i' model. Do you have a link to the review you're referring to? Are they talking about the older De Capo or the i?

I'm refering to the latest UHF edition where they refer to the i version.

cyounkman · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 Oct 2003, 06:17 am »

Quote from: Glenn Andre

Quote from: cyounkman
Do you have a link to the review you're referring to? Are they talking about the older De Capo or the i?

I'm refering to the latest UHF edition where they refer to the i version.

OK. I read the review. I wish they would list the equipment they listened with. Lots of interesting points there--I found Rejskind's comment (that he found the i model more refined in the treble) interesting in that it coincides nicely with some of the comments I've heard here.

I would try writing them to find out what system they were using, as the DC's can be unflatteringly revealing of what's upstream (I am a big expert in this area...). In any event, though, as Bruce alluded to, the easiest way to get extremely flat response out of a speaker is to correct the natural response of the drivers via the crossover design. Obviously the DC doesn't do this. So you're trading one thing for another.

However, in my experience small deviations in frequency response are unfortunately dwarfed by acoustic issues in the room.

If you are a frequency response freak and still want the dynamic life and other attributes of the DCs, correcting minor FR deviations (or re-voicing a speaker all together) in the digital domain is becoming very do-able now...

Glenn Andre · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 Oct 2003, 03:00 pm »

Thanks to all for sharing your impressions.