[drew54]

I have had great success improving the sound of my T8 by changing the tubes (currently all Amperex Bugle Boyz).  Now that I have finally opened the box and examined the parts content with a knowledgeable friend, was wondering if anyone had experience with changing caps or resistors in this unit.

Best regards,
Drew.

[Wayner]

Did you have the 6N1P upgrade?

W

[mark funk]

I did not know Amperex made a 6N1P tube? You must have an older T-8 before the 6N1P upgrade. I have some Bugle Boys also they sound nice but to me to get the best performance on top of Frank's work is a Telefunken 801s hard to find and cost a lot but that is 10,000 hours of bliss. As for changing parts like caps and resistors I have never heard a need to do so.

[modular747]

wondering if anyone had experience with changing caps or resistors in this unit.

Why would anyone want to ruin a brilliantly designed and engineered preamp by doing that?

[DSK]

wondering if anyone had experience with changing caps or resistors in this unit.

Why would anyone want to ruin a brilliantly designed and engineered preamp by doing that?

Like anything, it is built to a manufacturing cost (which may be derived from a target selling price). Using exotic caps of the same values will not "ruin" anything in the design but will increase the cost and *may* improve the sound.

[DARTH AUDIO]

DSK, Not always!! Check out this review/article from 6moons

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/caprolling/caps.html

[rustneversleeps]

I don't want to dispute what brand of cap that your knowledgeable friend recommends. Being a kit builder and have been working with electronics for the past twenty two years, and currently building three of Frank's kits from the ground up. I have to say that the parts that Franks uses are what engineers would use, they all meet certain specification, tolerance, and rating, and inexpensive good quality parts.

[modular747]

Like anything, it is built to a manufacturing cost (which may be derived from a target selling price). Using exotic caps of the same values will not "ruin" anything in the design but will increase the cost and *may* improve the sound.

The problem is that you can't be sure that they are actually the "same values" without lab bench equipment comparing them to the actual components they are replacing, not their nominal values. In fact, it's highly likely they won't match, and the sound will be different. No doubt, having paid hundreds of dollars for them and knowing for "certain" that they are "high end", the sound will be "better."  Not to get in another argument with a magic/exotic/musical/high-end parts True Believer, but 99.99% of those who buy them know only what those who make a living selling them at 10,000% markup tell them, accepting as gospel all their BS.  

The capacitors and resistors in Van Alstine products aren't selected by price point, but because they meet the design requirements.  The parts do not have any sound at all.  It's the engineering and circuit design that creates the fidelity to the source.

[dB Cooper]

wondering if anyone had experience with changing caps or resistors in this unit.

Why would anyone want to ruin a brilliantly designed and engineered preamp by doing that?

Like anything, it is built to a manufacturing cost (which may be derived from a target selling price). Using exotic caps of the same values will not "ruin" anything in the design but will increase the cost and *may* improve the sound.

Then why not buy a more expensive preamp in the first GD place ????
There are plenty of 'em....
Sigh...

[Brett Buck]

wondering if anyone had experience with changing caps or resistors in this unit.

Why would anyone want to ruin a brilliantly designed and engineered preamp by doing that?

Like anything, it is built to a manufacturing cost (which may be derived from a target selling price). Using exotic caps of the same values will not "ruin" anything in the design but will increase the cost and *may* improve the sound.

     By changing parts at random or by ear? Fascinating.


      Brett

[BrianM]

Oh, let the guy fiddle around with the caps and resistors.  Tinkering can be fun.  Maybe he'll learn something about design.  But it is probably good advice, should you stumble on an improvement, not to draw big conclusions about one widget being better than another.

[gjs_cds]

Ditto.  If amateurs believe they can get "magic" results with "magic" caps--then there's nothing anyone can do to change their belief--their dogma.

And after seeing some of their brilliant solder jobs (or entirely improper installations), I've come to enjoy the hackery as comic relief.

/just make sure you don't buy one of these "upgraded" units...

[Zheeeem]

I have had great success improving the sound of my T8 by changing the tubes (currently all Amperex Bugle Boyz).  Now that I have finally opened the box and examined the parts content with a knowledgeable friend, was wondering if anyone had experience with changing caps or resistors in this unit.

Best regards,
Drew.

Interesting.  Frank has spent a good deal of time looking for the best parts for the various circuit applications.  That, of course, does not mean he's looked at each and every brand.  I reckon he's particularly interested in cost-effective parts that perform according to his design specification in their rated application.  And he also considers other variables that can have an impact on performance (e.g., microphonics).

The other thing Frank does is measure and match parts values between channels.  This means that the L/R signal paths are basically identical.  No reliance on marked tolerances at AVA.  (Frank did a nice writeup on this in Audio Basics.)  So unless you are going to measure parts prior to swapping - which will probably mean buying many of the same part and then measuring them all hoping to find two identical ones!, a costly proposition - and are absolutely certain that you can solder at least as well as Frank's techs, you are running a very high risk of changing everything for the worse.

[Wayner]

I would just wonder if that particular T8 would ever need to be serviced by Frank for whatever reason, what the outcome might be?  aa

Wayner

[Brett Buck]

I would just wonder if that particular T8 would ever need to be serviced by Frank for whatever reason, what the outcome might be?

   Some at AVA please videotape it, too.

    Brett

[avahifi_lj]

Naturally, any part swapping (outside of tubes) will void your warranty.  Over the years, I have seen a few pieces of our equipment with user "modifications" returned for repair.  In some cases we were able fix the unit by removing the modifications, other times not. 

We have tried the exotic/magic parts in our units several times, and the times I got to listen to the "upgrade", I didn’t notice an improvement in the sound.  At best, the unit sounded the same; however, most of the time the sound was worse. 

One other thing:  We do NOT recommend tube rolling in our hybrid power amps because the circuit is balanced for the tubes installed.

Thanks,

Larry

[avahifi]

Best "mods" for a Transcendence Eight in the 17" chassis now using 12AT7/ECC81 tubes?

Thats a no brainer - - - upgrade to the 6N1P version.

It requires pulling the circuit board, rebiasing the circuit (several resistor value changes), changing the heater supply wiring for the 6V 6N1P tubes instead of the 12V 12AT7/ECC81 type, substantially beefing up the positive heater regulator for the increased current demands, and installing a full ventilated cover.

Cost if we do it. $299 plus $28 shipping.

Cost if you try it yourself, including voodoo parts and mystic magic woven wonder wires.  Priceless.  Cause it ain't gonna work.

Best regards,

Frank

[Charles Calkins]

Hey Frank!!  Can I get my T7ECR done for $299 plus $28 shipping?

                                               Cheers
                                                Charlie

[Wayner]

Tonight I'm listening to vinyl thru the AVA OmegaStar (EC) and the U70 amplifier and once again I remind myself that AVA sounds the way it does because of build and design practices. I'm pretty sure tolerences of components are taken out of the design equation thru careful engineering. That is why all AVA amps sound very similar, great designs executed well with consideration for tolerences within components. I couldn't imagine swapping out board level components in an attempt to improve sound because of component brand choice. Frank uses high quality parts with reasonable prices because he knows the extra cost to benifit ratio doesn't exist. Sometimes life lessons are not in the classroom, but at the AudioCircles.

Wayner

[avahifi]

Charlie, you will need to upgrade to our Ultra EC circuits ($999 plus $28 shipping in a EC without the phono section) to get the 6N1P upgrade (including in the Ultra upgrade now).

This includes the new mother board with the amazing multiple high speed, high voltage analog power supplies (separate power supplies for each plate of each tube, and separate regulators for each line level mos-fet too).  It also includes the 6N1P upgrade and the new full ventilated cover.

Your cost in a unit with remote control is about half of the new cost, and you are getting all the new stuff in a new unit, and a new three year parts and labor warranty too.  If you want the new black faceplate with gold graphics, add $100.

The sonic improvements will astonish you, as good as the T7 you now own is.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine