[iGrant]

Well, While reading the thread some stuff stood out, so I did some answers.
I do not think I'm right on all accounts. Nor do I think the angle I describe is the only one..
But as you point out, some part will not respond well to cryo treatment... the link in my first post in this
thread does take up some of that..

However, I'm not here to talk, as I feel is the case with us all here now.
I'm here to share my opinion, not defend it. Sort of like post - Annealing or Cryo as we know it by..
It's a given many people will not agree with some ways of this , or even disagree very hard!

I've not tried cryo treatment as a "stress release" in heated arguments.. but I'm sure that just won't be
nearly as cool as it sounds.. 


Imperial

Adult speak - 'cryo out dude'. should confuse the kids

[satfrat]

Well thanks to this thread getting me reaquainted with the positive benefits I've received, I today sent out my Trends UD-10.1 USB transport and accompanying Channel Island VDC-SB power supply to Charles Beresford of Cryogenics International. Should be an 8 day turnaround and considering computer audio is my sole audio source, I'm once again anxiously awaiting next wednesday. 

Price, $100 plus $66 Fed-Ex Espress 2 day shipping both ways. (I just know someone will ask so,,,) 


Cheers,
Robin

I just wanted to follow up on this post, mainly for the author's benefit as he was the most interested in components cryoing. I received my cryoed components back today, 8 days from last tuesdays shipping and the cost was actually only $75 for the cryoing job,,,go figure.  aa The process was a success with no issues,,, which makes me a happy camper. And as it was with my original component cryoing, I continued to be a happy camper after firing them backup. What I heard was a reminder of my first experience and it was immediate,,,, a dead quiet background. It's hard to explain as it goes beyond the normal power conditioning black background noise. A cryo generated dead quiet background seems to add depth to the music. There's lot of things that will add depth to a sound stage,power cords, Bybee's, room treatement but they deal with sound stage depth, not the actual music depth. Anyways i'm starting to confuse myself here so i'll leave it at that.  Suffice to say my computer source took another step foreward and I have made up my mind  to have my next HTPC(mine's 5 years old now) cryoed before I ever even hook it into my system. I'm not sure how this might affect hard drives or if that's even an issue but as it stands now, my HTPC has been the only component along with my speakers that haven't been cryoed.

I'll conclude by stating my feeling that this cryo generated dead quiet background is not subtle as is the resulting music depth and I highly recommend this process after assuring yourself that there's nothing included in your component that won't withstand the process. 

Cheers,
Robin

[iGrant]

Thanks Robin, I too got the word all the GF tubes are done today. Will get them Sunday from Moray and have a meeting to discuss what GF hardware we go with next for Cyro treatment (and an abandoned speaker design from the past), then get to it over the week to do some A/B testing with my ears as much as time permits. I can set up 2 identical (including cabling) new systems both with fresh tubes dialed in and burnt the same (as possible, one with treated tubes and one without, simply swapping speaker leads. This will of course take some time as there are 4 different tube amps, 2 different tube CD players a tube pre-amp and tube processor to test. I will get some local ears involved too.

I'll report as much as I can until someone screams enough, we get the point If there is any kind of test anyone would like me to concuct, such as switching pre-amp tubes only, let me know. Not really interested in blind/double blind tests, but may doing some if the results are too obvious.

Got you on the music depth and sounstage depth, the latter involves the reverb captured by mic positioning or the amount added to the mix, the former is the actual positioning if the instrumentation in the mix again by mic positioning or eq on the instruments. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it

Ian

[satfrat]

I got nuthin',,,,just looking forward to hearing what you hear, that's all. I've never done any A/B testing myself other than personal comparisons, it's all just a preference thing with me. and my preference is music w/o the noise. At 56, I grew up with noise in my music from abums to 8-track to cassettes. I did have a Teac reel to reel but that was only as good as the albums I'd record. As to hear what I'm not hearing in todays musical world,,,, well it's almost as good as sexxxxxx to me,,,,,,, almost.  aa


Cheers,
Robin

[iGrant]

Yup, I agree with you that I will decide what I like for my own system, don't need too much testing, will go with what I feel I hear and the amount of beer involved. But now I have customers to consider who will likely take my word for it a bit, so need to dig a bit deeper. Sex, what's that?

Ian

[iGrant]

Shuguang 12AX7B's in the GF CD 427. One CD 427 with Cryogeneration treated tubes (Murray James did it so I'll use his term), one with untreated, both units have about 200 hours on them, the tubes are all new. Both run thru a (all GF) A-348 amp loaded with untreated KT-88-98's, each CD 427 using PC-1.5 power cables RCA-1.5 interconnects. GF MBS-1 2-ways in traditional nearfield/monitoring positioning. Duplicate CD's burnt from same master CD on same disks at same burn settings. Using A-348's remote to switch between CDP's.

Warmed up for 2 hours - source Genesis 'Trick of the Tail'. Had to listen very hard to hear any difference between Cryo and untreated, somewhat taller image, maybe 6". Trick of the Tail is a busy mix, very dynamic with 'Moog' Bass Pedals and lots of cymbal work and Phil's voice. Probably not a great choice of source to do subtle testing with, but it is one of my favourite test CD's that I use for almost anything and I love the music.

Warmed up for 3 hours with one album play - source Diana Krall 'The Look of Love'. Wow!!!, much difference, but you still have to listen for it. Best summed up as the untreated tubes sound like they have an aural exciter on them compared to the treated, less distortion and everything seems to sit better in the soundstage. Smoothes out the sibilance at around 6k. This is getting into cable swap territory for difference. I prefer the sound of the Cryo'd tubes at this point. Will report again after one hundred hours on both sets of tubes.

Ian

[DaveC113]

Hi Ian, thanks for the report!

As a result of this thread, I am considering testing some aspect of a cryo'ed vs non-cryo'ed material. This would be for a Sr. Lab project at my school. This is only for a small part of this class, so it needs to be very simple. I was considering doing an Instron test of a few different materials... maybe steel, aluminum and copper. I'll pick an alloy, machine the dog-bones, and randomly select samples to be cryo treated. Hardness testing would be possible as well. Fatigue or crack propigation testing is too complex for this... If anyone has any input on materials, testing or anything else (or if you can cryo treat the material for me) I'd be open to suggestions.

Dave

[iGrant]

DaveC113,

there is a GF B-283 on loan to the Jr. Audiophile Circle that you can get for testing any which you want (just ask there), it is available for any school experiment and I can provide a second one, as long as at some point you do some sound testing. Lots of different materials and if you fry it somehow it can easily be replaced. As far as the science goes, I'm the wrong one to ask. I'm in permanent 'ears' mode

Ian

[iGrant]

100 hours on the Shuguang 12AX7B's in the GF CD 427's. The difference is more noticable now, you don't have to listen hard to hear the difference and the difference is very nice. Again it is like there is an aural exciter on the 'untreated' tubes with the mids getting excited. I found that I can turn up the treated tubes louder with less distortion in the mids and it kind of reminds me of a swap of our $100 copper rca's to our $600 silver rca's. Nuts

Album listening to for this test, Pete Townsend - All the Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes. A great album for decent volume listening and testing. The difference is noticable at all volumes and anyone could likely pick out the difference blind testing.

In summary on the Cryogeneration treated Shuguang 12AX7B's tubes in the GF CD 427. It sounds much better, the instrumentation sits better in the soundstage, the midrange is presented much better with less distortion and it allows the volume to go up much nicer. If you have similar tubes in a CDP I would not hesitate to recommend Cryogeneration treatment, by Morray James for sure and likely anyone else doing it below -300C for 48 hours with 12 hours down and up.

One change from the previous test, I have our GF RBS-1's (Morel's) hooked up instead of the GF MBS-1's (Vifa's), same basic cabinet design.
Will move on to power tubes next.

Ian

[DaveC113]

Ian , thanks for both the report and your offer... I guess I'll have to send some tubes to be cryo'ed or buy some new cryo'ed tubes to try ouy. As far as sound testing for the experiment, I think I'll just have to stick to mechanical testing, all I will be able to tell is if the stress-strain graphs change, so I'll be able to measure Young's modulus, toughness by the area under the curve (but not crack propigation testing), and ultimate tensile strength.

Dave