[DavidS]

I have been on bubble about new speakers for my small 11x12 study for a year or two.  Nearfield listening (although have enough room so speakers aren't right against wall) and have read full range speaker should work well in this environment.  I have also been back and forth a bit on diy (my main speakers are Ellis' that I built myself) but just not sure I would really enjoy the build experience.    This newly launched single driver speaker caught my eye (along with some of the other great single driver models out there).

Any comments or thoughts about the driver used, see they will do enabl, also really like the looks of the cab but no ideas nor does Audiomagus have any track record that will tell me how they will sound and fit my room?  Any other speakers using this same driver?

By the way these would replace little Audio Note AX2s that I am mostly underwhelmed with - just want all to know my Ellis's are speakers for life and will reside happily in a second system in a much larger room.

http://www.audio-magus.com/product_p/wl1.htm

David

[DaveC113]

Hmmm, don't think thats a good idea:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=45555.0

I can't believe audiomagus is doing business with them.

I'd go with Omegas instead.

Dave

[DavidS]

yikes that is not good - thanks for heads up.  Actually have personal experience with the PP guy in the article - not at all a happy one probably the reason I don't own a turntable to this day.  On the plus side the audiomagus guys seem to be up and comers and noted some positive references to their products from this year's RMAF and another model speaker review on TNT audio site.

David

[DaveC113]

Yeah, I don't understand why people do business with Hemp Acoustics when the owner has that sort of a reputation.    It was also mentioned that the maker of the hemp cones won't sell him their product anymore, so the hemp content in those drivers might be nonexistant.

I bought a Trends t-amp from audiomagus, didn't have any issues, and the person I talked to was knowledgable and helpful... but the fact they are doing business with HA isn't a plus. 

I own Omega XRS (4" drivers), and have heard the MaxHemps with the 8" drivers, and they are both spectacular speakers regardless of price... better than any other sd speaker I've heard, and I made it a point to check out some sd speakers at RMAF this year. The Feastrex drivers are a possible exception... but I'm not convinced they are actually better from the RMAF demos, but they are really nice if you have the cash.

Dave 

[JLM]

In a small room single driver speakers make lots of sense (need coherency, don't need high spls or deep bass). 

You should check out Bob Brines:  http://www.geocities.com/rbrines1/

Good workmanship, very good guy/sound/knowledge, great prices, and he sells plans, pre-cut panelized kits, assembled cabinets, or fully assembled speakers.  So you can go as DIY as you want.  Driver/woodworking quality from Omega could be argued to be higher, but cost more.  (Louis does great work.)

For a small room, I'd look at his FB-16 or FB-20.  Both are efficient, single driver (Fostex) largish standmounts.  Plus, going the fully assembled route you get to pick the veneer/finish.  I own the FTA-2000 speakers pictured on his website and they have been the foundation of my system and see no reason to upgrade.

[jrebman]

As much as I distrust PP at HA, I'm not sure how much he's involved with this, so let's wait to hear from Michael M., or some other person from Audio Magus.

I heard the prototypes of these at RMAF and was very impressed with both the fit and finish (and those, as I said were the prototypes with duct-taped on backs, less than optimal damping material etc.) and sound quality -- lacking in bass, but that is due to the taped on back.  Extremely coherent and non-aggressive with the EnABL treatment, and very nice mids.

JLM,  the man was asking about the Audio Magus/Lotus Acoustics speaker, not Bob Brines.  Please try to refrain from slipping in a mention of the BB speakers -- no matter how good they may be -- when there is even a hint of discussion going in that direction.  I think we're all aware of how you feel about your speakers.  Nothing against BB -- nice guy, and I'm sure the speakers are very nice.  This is a friendly way of saying that a lot of people are getting tired of this mantra, ok?

-- Jim

[mwyatt]

This is Mike Wyatt from Audiomagus.

We chose the FR8C because it was the best driver for our needs. After looking at what was available, and based on out initial contact and experience with HEMP Acoustics,  it was a simple and straightforward business decision based on driver performance and the ability of HEMP to meet our needs for customization and delivery.

In an earlier career, I worked as a writer and then an editor. Fact checking was an on-going process and nothing ever went to print that wasn't confirmed. Even though we were covering nature and travel in periodicals, rather than hard news in a daily or weekly, our credibility and our jobs were on the line if we made statements that weren't true. Unfortunately, this is not so on the web. It bothers me that the owners of the hemp-acoustics site are anonymous and that their claims are not backed by hard and substantive evidence, just hearsay, intimation and one-sided charges.

I know Perry only in a business context. In fact, we have never met. He is passionate about his products and certainly a good marketer. I'm sure he has made some enemies over the years. But he has alway been forthcoming and forthright. He has followed through on everything promised and has been generous with information and resources.

Perry and his engineers are very knowledgeable about their products -- to such an extent that I am secure in my opinion that they have developed products with real and unique differences from other hemp drivers (which have been around for some 70 years...). This was borne out in our testing: the FR8C is a very special speaker... so I know HEMP  produces good products.

I approach the attacks on Perry the same way that I approach audio: I trust my own ears, experience and judgment... and I don't like false claims . I've been around business and people long enough to understand that the loudest of such attacks are typically perpetrated by those in the wrong. (Did you ever notice that people doing such things are often inadvertently showing their own reflection?) If their charges are true, then they should have no difficulty in providing real and tangible proof, not gossip.

Until these charges are more than vitriol and hearsay, I take a very skeptical view. I invite those making the charges to come forward and stand up. Let's get to the truth of these matters and have both sides heard.

[mwyatt]

A quick postscript: I hope that our speakers will be judged on their quality, build and performance (We're pretty proud of them  ), outside of any issues anyone has with the driver manufacturer.

[DaveC113]

I've gotta say, you didn't think this through very well. This Pecker guy has an entire website dedicated to his corrupt business practices:

http://www.hemp-acoustics.com/

If the info on this site was slander, don't you thing Pecker would do something about it? The fact that he hasn't is telling enough... not to mention the parties responsible for this website were likely aware of the possible legal consequences of posting a website like that.

Unfortunately, you can't seperate yourself from those you choose to do business with. The world is an ever-shrinking community, and there just isn't room for people who aren't honest and ethical. I won't involve myself with anyone who doesn't live up to accepted ethical practices, and I certainly won't support their business by purchasing their products regardless of quality.

Also, I'd be interested to know who is supplying his driver cones, because on your website, they are white. The drivers on his website have dark cones, so obviously his supplier has changed. Hemp? I wouldn't be so sure about that...

Dave

[mwyatt]

To my understanding, HEMP is pursuing action against the site. (And it is much more difficult than you seem to realize to take against such sites). Also, why do you suppose those perpetrating the site are doing it anonymously?

If it were proved that HEMP engaged in unethical or illegal  business practices we would reconsider our relationship with them. From my ethical base, accusations are not proof. Our entire approach to business is based on honesty and fairness and that extends to how we treat our suppliers as well as our customers. This McCarthyistic approach to HEMP is not ethical or fair in our view. (We are neither defending nor condemning HEMP, we just want both sides heard and the truth to be revealed.)

I believe you reveal much in your statement regarding the driver cones. You haven't asked me about the cones. You haven't asked HEMP. You make an assumption and then pile on innuendo and supposition. The cones are made by the same supplier, we requested undyed cones. -- hence they are white.

I have made the only statements that I will make in this regard. I see nothing else to be served by engaging in a back-and-forth as there is nothing to be resolved. Let's see how it plays out by letting those with facts address the issues.

[jrebman]

Mike,

I appreciate your posting here and defending your business decisions.  We all have relatively few facts about this whole affair, so I think it is best for everybody concerned if we just not get into a lot of speculation, one way or another about a legal situation.

Dave,

I understand your point, and wouldn't want to support a "tainted" manufacturer either, but aside from Mike I've spoken with a couple of people on both sides of this mess and there are very reputable and ethical people on both sides, so with that information and nothing else, it's really difficult to know exactly where things are, especially since everybody's motivations are basically the same -- producing commercial speakers.

If there are lawyers involved, I'm sure theywill work things out and I don't want this circle to become a virtual kangaroo court.

I wish I had the room and the money to be able to have a pair of these as I really enjoyed what I heard at RMAF, and I'm not an easy customer to please when it comes to full range, single driver speakers.  I believe what I heard between the hemp and the EnABLing was something on par with a paradigm shift.  I wouldn't have sent a brand new set of perfectly good, rather expensive drivers to Bud to treat if I didn't think it was a risk worth taking -- I don't have that kind of money to throw around and just write off as an experiment.

Thanks for listening,

Jim

[DaveC113]

Really, I just wanted to share the info I had with the OP... who incidentally didn't have "a good experience" with PP in the past, so we already have one person who has posted on this thread with direct experience.  

Mike, you can certainly contact "those with facts" just by picking up the phone. I question the fact that you apparently did not, and are now inviting "those with facts" to weigh in on a public forum? A little on the late side don't you think? There are plenty of accusers on the website I posted who could verify this info for you, including HA's previous driver cone supplier. Also, there IS contact info on the website... under the "contact" link   

FYI, this forum isn't really the place to have "those with facts" weigh in, and this isn't going to turn into a thread about that issue without it being shut down anyhow. Anyone who is really interested can investigate further and make up their own mind.

Dave
 

[DavidS]

Feel like I really walked into one here - my intent was simply feedback about the new Audiomagus speakers and possible fit in my room and system.  They hit a number of chords right for me:
*  I like the bamboo cabs and love their looks - now I know they are demetris
*  the drivers have been very favourably reported especially at diyaudio
*  I like what I have read about enabl
*  I have been researching full range single driver speakers for nearly 2 years now but not found quite right fit
*  the price fits is even attractive value for cost

for what it is worth my PP story was a bad top to bottom purchase of a turntable on audiogon - the warning signs were there the buyer should have been more beware.  Probably only bad internet gear purchase I have ever had but result is I dumped vinyl, and wouldn't deal straight up with Perry again.  That said he was a good guy to talk to, in fact mostly enjoyed our discussions and talk we did many times - just didn't deliver in many ways what I paid him for.  Haven't paid much attention to all the negative press about him but sounds like my complaints are minor.

Love this site and the information here - Jim your response got me researching and found some of your good comments on these speakers from RMAF:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=46344.0

Was missing that they were Dave D's cab design - a name I see a lot here in Victoria.

Questions I have are:

1.  how would this 8 inch driver work in a small 11 x 12 room with mostly lower level listening
2.  my amp is a Response Bella 3205 - push pull appx 60 watts per channel - too much power for this efficiency speaker?

Mike - certainly didn't want to put your new babies in a poor light

[Meicheng]

I have the 8" hemp drivers in large-ish bookshelf monitors on stands in a small room.  The room is probably 12X12 and the speakers are about 5 feet from my chair.  My listeing is mostly low to mid level listening.  Bottom line, I think the 8" hemp drivers are fantastic full range drivers (mine are unmodified).  I happen to have them mated with an Audiomagnus-modified Kingrex amp @ 12 watts per channel (a little amp I love).  The combo plays plenty loud for me in the small room.  As to using a 60 watt tube amp, that is certainly more than enough to drive these in any 12X12 room, but I can't speak to the downside or possibility of your amp being too powerful.  FYI my speakers came from FritzSpeakers in Los Angeles and Fritz builds nice single drivers too.  Anyway I heatily endorse the 8" hemp drivers and I'm sure the AudioMagnus speakers are on par with other single driver speakers in this price range.  Martin. 

[Duke]

mwyatt wrote:

"We are neither defending nor condemning HEMP, we just want both sides heard and the truth to be revealed."

Would you like to hear my side? 

Duke

[JLM]

DavidS,

"Too much power?"  No, but you could easily end up with too little usable range of volume control.  Check the input sensitivity of your amp.  With digital sources typically outputing 2.0 volts this is a common problem.  An easy answer is to add inline volume controls on the back of your source(s) or between pre/power amp sections if the amp allows.

Another high value source for small single driver speakers to consider (that hopefully hasn't irked the moderator and/or others) is Tekton:

http://www.tektondesign.com/

[doug s.]

A quick postscript: I hope that our speakers will be judged on their quality, build and performance (We're pretty proud of them  ), outside of any issues anyone has with the driver manufacturer.

those are sweet looking cabinets.  how much would they go for w/o drivers?   

doug s.

[jrebman]

1.  how would this 8 inch driver work in a small 11 x 12 room with mostly lower level listening

My educated guess is that it would be excellent.  This driver has loads of low level detail retrieval capability so you don't have to push them hard to get a full sonic picture -- and the efficiency always helps this too.

2.  my amp is a Response Bella 3205 - push pull appx 60 watts per channel - too much power for this efficiency speaker?

No, but as JLM says, you might be confined to a small range on your volume pot.  You can talk to Bill and I'm sure he can put an attenuator network after the selector switch or the input jacks (if you only have a single pair), or if you're using a preamp, you could try some attenuator ICs between it and the amp.

You can probably also use some EL34/6CA7s and bias them low for lower power, and I'll bet the hemp and EL34 combination would sound sweet.  Depending on your preferences, of course.

I used a 40 watt SE, and 50 watt PP amp with both my Horn Shoppe Horns and Abbys (when I had them) and that was the best they ever sounded.

And I do happen to have a pair of Tektons -- baby Abby-types with Planet 10 modified FE-127s, but I'll talk about them in another thread when I have enough experience with them to give meaningful feedback on them.

Back to the Lotus' -- the wide baffle really loads these drivers nicely, and with close to front wall placement in a small room, I'd think you'd get a really nicely balanced, and full sound at any level.

I obviously haven't tried them in my house, but my room for my SD stuff is 10' x 16', so not all that far from what you intend to use yours in.

HTH,

Jim

[DavidS]

thanks for all the information

Doug - if you acquired the cabs (they are nice looking) what kind of driver would you put in them.  Guess next step up the ladder is the Feastrex and PHYs of the world?

[doug s.]

thanks for all the information

Doug - if you acquired the cabs (they are nice looking) what kind of driver would you put in them.  Guess next step up the ladder is the Feastrex and PHYs of the world?

phy's are wery tempting to try, but so spendy...  i'd be interested even in the omega hemp drivers.  no way i'd ever consider anything w/hempacoustics drivers, no matter how good they sound.

ymmv,

doug s.